Lazy or working too hard?

I don;t consider ADD/ADHD to be a a valid EXCUSE to people to use for not being successful.  Ritalin I MIGHT allow as an excuse, but that is a choice… you can choose to not take it.

And, regardless of your perspective on this…  I refuse to believe that ADD/ADHD IF it is a real clinical disease is as prevalent as it must be based on Ritalin Rx’s.

If the masive growth in scrips for it are simply because of “increased awareness” and if it is such a terrible, terrible thing… then how in the hell did we survive as a nation with all these untreated ADD/ADHD folks around?

I am willing to bet that 9 out of 10 kids currently on Ritalin have no real need for psychoactive drugs.  Those folks are an assortment of kids that are drugged to make a teacher’s life easier, or a parent’s, or they were put on it as a replacement for discipline, etc.  Maybe, just MAYBE 1 out of 10 actually has some disorder that causes attention/activity issues.  Of those 1 in 10, I would also bet that many of them are no where near so severe that they require psychoactive drugs.

@ncscswitch:

I don;t consider ADD/ADHD to be a a valid EXCUSE to people to use for not being successful.  Ritalin I MIGHT allow as an excuse, but that is a choice… you can choose to not take it.

And, regardless of your perspective on this…  I refuse to believe that ADD/ADHD IF it is a real clinical disease is as prevalent as it must be based on Ritalin Rx’s.

If the masive growth in scrips for it are simply because of “increased awareness” and if it is such a terrible, terrible thing… then how in the hell did we survive as a nation with all these untreated ADD/ADHD folks around?

I am willing to bet that 9 out of 10 kids currently on Ritalin have no real need for psychoactive drugs.  Those folks are an assortment of kids that are drugged to make a teacher’s life easier, or a parent’s, or they were put on it as a replacement for discipline, etc.  Maybe, just MAYBE 1 out of 10 actually has some disorder that causes attention/activity issues.  Of those 1 in 10, I would also bet that many of them are no where near so severe that they require psychoactive drugs.

i am very curious as to the nature, quality, quanitity, and legitimacy of all of the studies that are available to back up your claims, refuting the medical literature that has recently emerged demonstrating a very significant difference in a number of QOL measures in treated vs. untreated ADHD children.

Quality of life by being on Ritalin?

On August 21, the Food & Drug Administration added its strongest warning label – a “Black Box” label – to Ritalin, Adderall, Focalin, Methylin, Metadate, Concerta and similar medications used to treat attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The decision was based on reports of sudden death, heart attacks, strokes and hypertension among childern and adult users of Ritalin.

The studies you mention about Ritalin being the best way to control ADD/ADHD… you mean things like this flawed study?

However, an examination of the MTA study reveals several gross methodological flaws that undermine its scientific validity and limit any conclusions that may be drawn from it.

http://www.breggin.com/mta.html

And really… this sounds like a laundry list of things we all WANT for our children…

• The use of methylphenidate in children may cause suppression of growth. Growth should be monitored during treatment and children who are not growing or gaining weight as expected may need to have their treatment interrupted. Talk to your doctor if you have questions.

• If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking methylphenidate and seek emergency medical attention or contact your doctor immediately:
    · an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
    · an irregular or fast heartbeat;
    · chest pains or very high blood pressure (blurred vision, severe headache, flushing);
    · unusual behavior or confusion; or
    · liver damage (yellowing of the skin or eyes, nausea, abdominal pain or discomfort, unusual bleeding or bruising, severe fatigue).
• Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take methylphenidate and talk to your doctor if you experience
    · insomnia (difficulty sleeping);
    · nervousness;
    · drowsiness;
    · dizziness;
    · headache;
    · blurred vision;
    · tics (repetitive movements);
    · abdominal pain, nausea, or vomiting;
    · decreased appetite or weight loss; or
    · slower weight gain and/or growth.
• Methylphenidate may cause drug dependence.

http://www.medicationadvisor.com/side_effects/Ritalin.htm

Oh wait, never mind, this is also part of the advice for Ritalin…

Remember, keep this and all other medicines out of the reach of children

Yes, keep this drug AWAY from our children!  The best medical warning I think I may have ever seen.

people had these problems for thousands of years.  the thing was, no one cared and the person dealt with it.  no excuses.  and people fared just fine.  or they tried to overcome their difficulties with help from family and friends.  but they were still expected to provide.

thats the way i see it now.  no excuses.  liberal society is making way to many excuses for everyone.

NC - if you take these lists of side effects as reasons to not take Ritalin, then you pretty much should not take ANY medication.  You will find much nastier lists than this on just about any other medication out there - including nearly all OTC meds.
And somehow by listing a possible SE profile of Ritalin, i am to be convinced that ADHD does not exist?

No, I am saying that ADD/ADHD IF it does exist is:
1.  over diagnosed
2.  over prescribed

As for your comment on other drug side effects…
You are correct, that means that when taking ANY medication you have to determine if the potential negative impacts of taking the drug outweigh the issue you would be taking the drugs for.  And YES, I think that is an important thing for everyone to do, instead of just blindly taking medications.  I take about 4 asprin/tylenol a year.  I took a round of antibiotics 3 years ago for a severe ear infection that threatened my hearing in my “good” ear.  To actually ahve me taking a lot of prescribed meds, I have to go back to my time in the military, and being drugged senseless again on Codeine for several months.

Most ADD/ADHD folks would do be “cured” with an improved diet and a healthier more active lifestyle (you know, go burn some of thsoe stored calories instead of sitting infront of the tube or with your X-box… works wonders for being able to sit still, fall asleep at night, etc.)

@ncscswitch:

No, I am saying that ADD/ADHD IF it does exist is:
1.  over diagnosed
2.  over prescribed

As for your comment on other drug side effects…
You are correct, that means that when taking ANY medication you have to determine if the potential negative impacts of taking the drug outweigh the issue you would be taking the drugs for.  And YES, I think that is an important thing for everyone to do, instead of just blindly taking medications.  I take about 4 asprin/tylenol a year.  I took a round of antibiotics 3 years ago for a severe ear infection that threatened my hearing in my “good” ear.  To actually ahve me taking a lot of prescribed meds, I have to go back to my time in the military, and being drugged senseless again on Codeine for several months.

Most ADD/ADHD folks would do be “cured” with an improved diet and a healthier more active lifestyle (you know, go burn some of thsoe stored calories instead of sitting infront of the tube or with your X-box… works wonders for being able to sit still, fall asleep at night, etc.)

so are you a scientologist as well?  Can one be a pagan and a scientologist?

First off, I consider being called a Scientologist a flame, and this is not the first time you have done it in this thread.

Second, not being “pill relliant” for health and wellness is not limitted Scientologists.  Indeed the very modern western medical community of which you are a part advocates VERY STRONGLY regarding the impact of nutrition, lifestyle, excercise, etc. on the function of the human body… including the nervous system.

Now, if you want to be an ass and keep throwing your Scientology remark around as an attempt to deride the fact that, like the American Medical Association, I believe that nutrition, excercise, etc. impact the functioning of every system in the human bidy, please feel free to do so.  Just realize that doing so will likely result in me ignoring further remarks by you in this thread.  I don;t put much faith in a physician who thinks that nutrition and excercise’s impact on the human body is some fringe religius group ideal.  I wonder if you are as flippant about the effect of health and nutrition on ALL body systems, or if you just think it has nothing to do with the nervous system’s proper function.

@ncscswitch:

First off, I consider being called a Scientologist a flame, and this is not the first time you have done it in this thread.

oh waaa
preach their gospel, and be considered an adherent.

Second, not being “pill relliant” for health and wellness is not limitted Scientologists.  Indeed the very modern western medical community of which you are a part advocates VERY STRONGLY regarding the impact of nutrition, lifestyle, excercise, etc. on the function of the human body… including the nervous system.

unrelated

Now, if you want to be an a** and keep throwing your Scientology remark around as an attempt to deride the fact that, like the American Medical Association, I believe that nutrition, excercise, etc. impact the functioning of every system in the human bidy, please feel free to do so.

i’m not debating this - in fact, i discuss this with nearly every patient coming in w/ psychiatric/medical complaints

Just realize that doing so will likely result in me ignoring further remarks by you in this thread.

oh no!  You will continue to ignore most of the points that i make and only zero in on mis-interpretations of some of the points that i make?  I’m crying - i think that has to do with the fact that it’s really early and i popped a blood vessel in my lower eyelid a few days ago.

I don;t put much faith in a physician who thinks that nutrition and excercise’s impact on the human body is some fringe religius group ideal.

HA!
there is a difference between what you just said, and

Most ADD/ADHD folks would do be “cured” with an improved diet and a healthier more active lifestyle

you see, the former makes a lot of sense, and you know nothing about my practice, so you slander me - fair enough - doctors have been targets for this forever.  The latter is exactly what scientologists preach at their anti-psychiatry gatherings - I know because i was at the APA and tried to get their stance on the subject, and everything that you have said about Ritalin and ADHD is out of their handbook.

I wonder if you are as flippant about the effect of health and nutrition on ALL body systems, or if you just think it has nothing to do with the nervous system’s proper function.

i’m not debating i’m pretty flippant about just about everything - i can’t believe you havn’t realized that!
And if you reread this line - it’s really really stupid.  You are not discussing any point that i’ve made.

Actually, you must have missed a few of my remarks, like wehere I cinceeded that ADD/ADHD MAY exist.  I would think that concession to your remarks would have made more impact.

Alas, I guess I’ll just go back to my reading… I am really enjoying Dianetics  :roll: