you know FinsterniS, i believe that the presence of creationists is actually quite useful in regards to the persuit of better science etc. Many of them ask excellent questions, some that can’t (yet) be answered by evolutionists. In fact, i wonder that if not for creationists continually asking questions etc. if the research on evolution might not have stalled and been considered an “unproven fact” long ago.
Certainly many Christians are unscientific - as are many atheists. Big deal? If they were blowing up labs and archeological digs, that would be one thing, but the fact that some Christians want further proof before accepting something as fact which (to them) appears to conflict with the scriptures is something you may not need to knot your panties with.
Anybody here (seen my old friend, John?) read Forbidden Archeology regarding some of the gaps and flaws in the written records? It’s a very good indictment of the current belief system and supporting cast. No Christian viewpoint for some to find fault with the results.
How about Scientific Creationism ? It strats with 15 chapters of science conflicting with itself. then brings in Christianity in the last chapter as a simpler solution to the conflict(I’ll paraphrase here - e.g., 10,000 years ago, G_d made a star 10 billion light years from Earth. G_d put the light that shines from that star to the Earth in place. Big Bangers say “If God created the world 10.000 yrs. ago the light wouldn’t be there.” But that’s leaving G_d impotent, not omnipotent.) Read the book! It makes more sense than my paraphase.
Man evolved from gorilla(ape) ? Come on! Get it right! Man and Ape evolved from the same ancestors. :o :lol: Get educated, you Neanderthals! Read Forbidden Archeology and question your limited knowledge. - Xi
@cystic:
you know FinsterniS, i believe that the presence of creationists is actually quite useful in regards to the persuit of better science etc. Many of them ask excellent questions, some that can’t (yet) be answered by evolutionists. In fact, i wonder that if not for creationists continually asking questions etc. if the research on evolution might not have stalled and been considered an “unproven fact” long ago.
I disagree, the thermodynamic argument is not to convince scientific but the people, and in the end it only spread confusion ! As some other “logical” argument that make my stomach hurt. There is a lot of different kind of evolutionist, they are generating enough question to keep them busy and alert. Also just try to kind an evolutionist that will do research on how thermodynamic is in conflict with his science… They have more serious complication.
Certainly many Christians are unscientific - as are many atheists.
Try to find me 10 unscientific Atheist. By unscientific i mean they caution their belief with fallacious/unscientific argumentation.
Big deal? If they were blowing up labs and archeological digs, that would be one thing, but the fact that some Christians want further proof before accepting something as fact which (to them) appears to conflict with the scriptures is something you may not need to knot your panties with.
There is a serious problem when a “science” theory is base not on evidence but on 2 000 years old text. And when their only way to prove their theory is by pointing out evolutionist difficulty (evolution is a young science, give it time…)
@Xi:
Anybody here (seen my old friend, John?) read Forbidden Archeology regarding some of the gaps and flaws in the written records? It’s a very good indictment of the current belief system and supporting cast. No Christian viewpoint for some to find fault with the results.
I read it… but it’s not convincing.
How about Scientific Creationism ? It strats with 15 chapters of science conflicting with itself.
As a matter of fact most of the “conflict” are only result of deformation or ignorance, just give me one for fun… It’s always in the same form of the Thermodynamic vs Evolutionist one, they make a deformation, then they claim there is a problem. That’s why it is dangerous.
then brings in Christianity in the last chapter as a simpler solution to the conflict(I’ll paraphrase here - e.g., 10,000 years ago, G_d made a star 10 billion light years from Earth. G_d put the light that shines from that star to the Earth in place. Big Bangers say “If God created the world 10.000 yrs. ago the light wouldn’t be there.” But that’s leaving G_d impotent, not omnipotent.) Read the book! It makes more sense than my paraphase.
Evolutionism is very complex, but it explain very well the world around us. Christian are giving a simple, easy to swallow answer, that does not explain anything. I can give you a simple scenario about earth’s creation; the finnish one with the troll dying; it is not less or more valid than any theory with a mythological being; but it explain nothing. Also to first use god in an argumentation you must show that he does exist, it is not the case… Exept if you want to prove he exist BECAUSE he the existence of a creation; so you will need to prove creationism exist, but first god that need to be prove by creationism that need to be prove by god… well, circular logic.
Then evolutionists mess up their own stories. A couple of years ago astronomers discovered some stars Multiple times older than the cosmos has been calculated as being. :oops: ,silly scientists. My favorite part is that they use half-life theory to prove the age of an item. I’ll believe that when they show me a million years of Proof by the Scientific Method…NOT THEORY!
Science is advanding, unlike Creationism, so it is clear they discover new thing and change their mind; that is science. Also the system to prove the age of an item is very precise, the Half-life system of C14 is a good one and there is several exemple where other geological/historical evidence prove how precise the C14 dating is good.
yeah - i was kind of going there earlier.
to have to submit and be humble in the face of something much greater than ourselves does not leave room for arrogance.
given the fact that i am an arrogant person (according to FinsterniS and my sisters) i might be a bit of an anomaly in this regard . . . .
The concept of superiority and arrogance cannot deny or confirm the existence of the Almighty. Man can be “superior,” yet God could still exist (or not exist). To say human arrogance is a factor in the grand scheme of things is very arrogance.
In christianism the Human race is the center of the creation and of the universe; pure anthropocentrisme!
It’s Anthropocentrism. If you going to use big words like that, at least try to spell them correctly…
What would i need to be a theist again ? Well… not a miracles, i only request a logical argumentation, not a deformation of any physic law, but a real argument i could not refute. Argument from design or the Prime Factor argument does not impress me
Some people need to try harder.
It’s Anthropocentrism. If you going to use big words like that, at least try to spell them correctly…
Well i try but even if i am getting a little better in english, i am still not very good… Also i just add a “e”, like in French…
Just use a spell check next time. :) I don’t mind spelling errors, but it’s hard for people to run into a big word they probably haven’t encountered before and take the time to look it up in a dictionary (or to the lazy Americans -forget it altogether and watch “Friends”), only to found out it wasn’t listed because it was spelled incorrectly! Better luck next time
Everybody,
THIS INCLUDES Y’ALL (AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)!
I really cannot believe you(or me)! We debate topics in which we are NOT EXPERTS. We may be experts in one field (in a few cases two or three). Most people on this website are high school to mid-twenties. Hardly experts in anything.
A brilliant college professor once admitted to his students that he knew less than 1% of all the knowledge in the world. I humbly admit that I know less than eight-tenths of 1%. Yet, I throw out a long, half-assed argument and receive, in return, a long, half-assed response (everyone can take this personally, if they wish, but its the truth, repeatedly)! Rarely proof of expertise and no ground rules of logic or debate! Why do we do this to ourselves ?
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"FinsterniS, it amazes me that you keep trying to win an argument with anyone here. After all we are NORTH AMERICANS (which means WE ARE RIGHT ! :lol: :wink: I guess you made a bad choice of places to practice typing English (AMERICAN) ! :lol: :evil: :lol: :lol: :oops: Oops! Did I say that? :wink:
Come on Xi,
the internet is about spreading about one’s opinions as well as learning as much as anything else (porn excepted).
Certainly we are not all as well schooled in philosophy as F_S, however we all have our own style, and most of the time if we throw out BS we’ll get called on it (almost all the time, really - 'cept me, i’m pretty clean :) )
As for your proffessor, i sincerely doubt he knows anything approaching 1% of the known knowledge of the world. One does not even know what one does not know (or for that matter is yet to be known).
@TG:
[[quote]In christianism the Human race is the center of the creation and of the universe; pure anthropocentrisme!
It’s Anthropocentrism. If you going to use big words like that, at least try to spell them correctly…
T6,
Come on! Give the F_S a brake. :P Aftre alle, Englishe isn’t his/her firste languag! :lol:
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W’a’d’esay? W’a’d’esay?
c_c_,
Hey! Don’t go knockin’ 85% of the internet! Besides, Where do you think I spend the rest of my time? :evil:
The prof. was not mine. A friend had a#1 in his field, Know-it-all, prof.
My friend asked the Prof. if he knew 1% of all the knowledge in the universe. The prof. replied, “I know less than 1% of all the knowledge in the known world.” Then my friend enjoyed lowering the boom(humbling the prof.) I cannot tell it as well as he can so I won’t try. But, I used the example cuz I’ve had eight (note the eight-tenths of 1%)different careers(and fields) in my life and been damn good at all of them. Please, note the contrast in the examples.
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If you’ll excuse me I have to go look at/download/upload alot of dirty pictures. :evil: :wink: - Xi
why invest so much time in something that can never be answered. live your life and focus and the present, not the future! we have to experience the present to arrive at the future. besides, what we believe in about death and afterlife is highly irrelevant, what ever happens WILL happen regardless of wether we think we’ll roast in hell or drink milk and honey in the clouds for the rest of eternity. it is also my opinion to say that god is dead, he/she/they have been dead for a while (although how long i still debate) but god has been replaced with truth and science (although some still cling to thier religion) and pro-choice. i mean think about, we are doing things that were once reserved for gods, mass annihilation (nuclear weapons), genetic alteration, etc. also look around at the people walking in the streets, women wear sexy clothing, people drink and do what they chose to do, sex is highly advertised in the media. people have no need for god anymore. god is deader than dead. the moment god died is when people began to ignore thier religion, engage in whatever they wish, started asking questions, rebelling, and when the universe became an OPEN one instead of a CLOSED universe …
why invest so much time in something that can never be answered. live your life and focus and the present, not the future! we have to experience the present to arrive at the future. besides, what we believe in about death and afterlife is highly irrelevant, what ever happens WILL happen regardless of wether we think we’ll roast in hell or drink milk and honey in the clouds for the rest of eternity. it is also my opinion to say that god is dead, he/she/they have been dead for a while (although how long i still debate) but god has been replaced with truth and science (although some still cling to thier religion) and pro-choice. i mean think about, we are doing things that were once reserved for gods, mass annihilation (nuclear weapons), genetic alteration, etc. also look around at the people walking in the streets, women wear sexy clothing, people drink and do what they chose to do, sex is highly advertised in the media. people have no need for god anymore. god is deader than dead. the moment god died is when people began to ignore thier religion, engage in whatever they wish, started asking questions, rebelling, and when the universe became an OPEN one instead of a CLOSED universe …
Hmm…I disagree.
Not everyone is doing the all the crap that you pointed out. I don’t agree with it, and I sure as hell don’t participate in it.
I completely disagree with your apathy (maybe disregard) for a God. It’s pretty sad (and blatantly obvious) that you have so little humility as to think that you have as much power as God. It’s one thing to not believe in God, but it’s a whole 'nother to think that you have replaced him. Is it that hard to have faith in something? We may not have the scientific evidence that we are all reliant upon for evidence of a higher power, but is it too hard to comprehend that there may be something bigger and more powerful out there…than you?
I feel pretty sorry for you. :-? That’s all I’ve got to say.
#1; Maybe that what he think, but he never said he think Human were god, just that we are doing thing reserve to “god”. There is a very big distinction.
#2; In term of humility, no theist can match most Atheist.
And i feel sorry too for christian, those who believe in mythological being without using their reason.
#1; Maybe that what he think, but he never said he think Human were god, just that we are doing thing reserve to “god”. There is a very big distinction.
#2; In term of humility, no theist can match most Atheist.
And i feel sorry too for christian, those who believe in mythological being without using their reason.
there are too many things that people believe in that there is no “reasoning” for.
I’m certain that you are one of them. Of course of these things a 2000 year old event may not be one of them, but there are things you believe in with little reason for it.
That is a very simple counter-argument… i don’t believe something because it pleased me, i would be still christian. I don’t accept conclusion without knowledge of the argumentation.
It’s got nothing to do with having “proof” or “evidence” or “reason.”
Have you ever heard of “faith?”
If the fact that the sky is blue causes me to be subject to a God, then I will tell myself and others that it is green until I believe it. “Now I am comfortable.” And then I think… “If the sky is green, will that tree over there now subject me to God?”
That is a very simple counter-argument… i don’t believe something because it pleased me, i would be still christian. I don’t accept conclusion without knowledge of the argumentation.
Then why don’t you find out the arguement? Does Christianity not encourage you to use your logic and reason to question even the very basis of the religion?
That is a very simple counter-argument… i don’t believe something because it pleased me, i would be still christian. I don’t accept conclusion without knowledge of the argumentation.
Then why don’t you find out the arguement? Does Christianity not encourage you to use your logic and reason to question even the very basis of the religion?
No, it want you to be “faithful”, in brief to be blind to reason. Anyway i did’nt find god, i only find out lies.
That is a very simple counter-argument… i don’t believe something because it pleased me, i would be still christian. I don’t accept conclusion without knowledge of the argumentation.
Then why don’t you find out the arguement? Does Christianity not encourage you to use your logic and reason to question even the very basis of the religion?
No, it want you to be “faithful”, in brief to be blind to reason. Anyway i did’nt find god, i only find out lies.
I guess you learn something knew every day. That’s another difference I guess between Judaism and Christianity, It’s fascinating how Christianity has evolved so differently from Judaism, which it is based on. Comparitive religion is interesting, IMO.
