The Existence of God

I see a beautiful and immense universe. I would be blind and arrogant, to think an “intelligence being” create the earth and my own race in his own image… those who think only intelligence can breed/bring order are reductionist.

And please don’t say i have not the “eye” to see god, that is too easy, i had perfectly the “eye” to see god, and i have done a lot of things that make me laugh now, but with logic i reject god.

Why did god give me an Appendix or my Spleen then? Why didn’t god make Humans until roughly, 4,000,000,000 years into earth’s history? Why did God make Humans evolve from Apes?

@Yanny:

Why did god give me an Appendix or my Spleen then? Why didn’t god make Humans until roughly, 4,000,000,000 years into earth’s history? Why did God make Humans evolve from Apes?

both somewhat handy organs - the spleen, especially.
maybe God didn’t make Humans until roughly x years ago because God didn’t feel like it, or because - like a cake in the oven - these developments with this complexity take time.
Maybe God made Humans evolve from apes as that seemed to be the best plan?

And FinsterniS - i’ve already told you that i’m arrogant - if not blind - to think that an intelligent being created the earth. Although i’m humbled when i think about the idea of God - so i have trouble putting the “arrogant” thing together with acknowledging a greater being.
And yes, i am a bit of a reductionist - it helps keep my life simple.

And FinsterniS - i’ve already told you that i’m arrogant - if not blind - to think that an intelligent being created the earth. Although i’m humbled when i think about the idea of God - so i have trouble putting the “arrogant” thing together with acknowledging a greater being.

Acknowledging a greater thing that make us in his own image, give only to us a soul, give us a greater purpose, claim that we were the master of the animal kingdom… It does not sound arrogant to you ? If only there was something to support it, it could be realistic, but it is clearly a fantasm. A weak tool to give ourself a higher purpose in life

Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?

The purposes will vary slightly from belief system to belief system. Writings such as the Judeo-Christian Bible and/or the Moslem Koran will in of themselves have more of a noble purpose. Peace, prosperity, fertility, brotherhood, to name a few. However, later human interpretations of these early books will usually loose the original meanings. Influenced by the current governmental systems in charge; purposes such as conquest, conversion (religious), territorial expansion; are added to the list. If Jesus saw what we were doing in his name after 2000 years, he’d spin in his grave fast enough to power New York City! (Theoretically of course, the Christians believe he rose into Heaven).

The purpose for animals, you know the answer - TO SERVE MAN…
Why? This I answered in the “Religion” thread topic…

So animals have no souls? What about doggie heaven? :wink: :cry:

@Field:

The purposes will vary slightly from belief system to belief system. Writings such as the Judeo-Christian Bible and/or the Moslem Koran will in of themselves have more of a noble purpose. Peace, prosperity, fertility, brotherhood, to name a few. However, later human interpretations of these early books will usually loose the original meanings. Influenced by the current governmental systems in charge; purposes such as conquest, conversion (religious), territorial expansion; are added to the list. If Jesus saw what we were doing in his name after 2000 years, he’d spin in his grave fast enough to power New York City! (Theoretically of course, the Christians believe he rose into Heaven).

The purpose for animals, you know the answer - TO SERVE MAN…
Why? This I answered in the “Religion” thread topic…

Judaism doesn’t have forced conversion or missionaries. It’s aainstthe religion There was one king, John Hyrcanus (who should never have reigned), that conducted a forced conversion and because of it, his family suffered as did the Jews under King Herod, who was a Jews by the forced conversion but was not actually a Jew according to Jewish law.

@EmuGod:

@Field:

The purposes will vary slightly from belief system to belief system. Writings such as the Judeo-Christian Bible and/or the Moslem Koran will in of themselves have more of a noble purpose. Peace, prosperity, fertility, brotherhood, to name a few. However, later human interpretations of these early books will usually loose the original meanings. Influenced by the current governmental systems in charge; purposes such as conquest, conversion (religious), territorial expansion; are added to the list. If Jesus saw what we were doing in his name after 2000 years, he’d spin in his grave fast enough to power New York City! (Theoretically of course, the Christians believe he rose into Heaven).

The purpose for animals, you know the answer - TO SERVE MAN…
Why? This I answered in the “Religion” thread topic…

Judaism doesn’t have forced conversion or missionaries. It’s aainstthe religion There was one king, John Hyrcanus (who should never have reigned), that conducted a forced conversion and because of it, his family suffered as did the Jews under King Herod, who was a Jews by the forced conversion but was not actually a Jew according to Jewish law.

Of course with Christianity “forced conversion” is non-biblical. In fact Jesus tells Christians to not throw their pearls before swine (a metaphor for “don’t waste your time”). Although we are commisioned to tell the world about Jesus, there is no “power” struggle involved - i.e. our job is to tell, not convince - the Holy Spirit does that.

:lol:

:lol:

CC you “dodge” my question and the question of F_alk…

Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?

And what purpose god give us ?

Wild2000 - I doubt Jesus would have endorsed the Crusades. Once the Roman Empire officially converted to Christianity (for political reasons) the rulers over the next few centuries added most of the rules (for the Catholic Church) outside the Bible we’re familiar with now. Obviously people would dispute such changes considering them heretical (illegal). This is why we had the Schism in the 11th century and later the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. If interpretations remained consistent this would not happen.

There is little doubt that Jesus was executed by crucifixion (by Roman law). I was just illustrating the point I was making…

@FinsterniS:

CC you “dodge” my question and the question of F_alk…

Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?

And what purpose god give us ?

Actually didn’t dodge, but i figured FM’s reply was nearly sufficient.
Also i hadn’t thought too much about the purpose of animals on the earth. I obviously don’t know, as they never have told me.
As for our purpose on this earth, i think that’s for each of us to find out. The bible gives us rules for the journey, but the ultimate end is for us to figure out. When we lie on our deathbeds and look back will i be happy i spent this gorgeous summer afternoon on the computer? Or is there more to my life than this?
Of course while we are here, i’m sure God would appreciate some worship from those “lunatic” enough to buy into God’s existance. By living for God, we may find that higher purpose - that reason for our lives - in helping other people, and devoting ourselves to a higher purpose than the almighty dollar etc.
But i don’t really know. Or care. I’m here, that’s enough for now. I know what i want and need (or i think i do), and i have a good idea of where i want to be. God’s purpose for me is being revealed in the way that it should. As for your purpose,
no idea.
none.
Probably to make me dwell a little more on spiritual things, to seek out God more, and ponder spiritual matters more. You’ve been most helpful in that regard.

:lol:

@Wild2000:

From a lot of the discussion and feedback I see, I sometimes get the feeling that no matter what, nothing would be convincing enough.

I am wondering if there is even a possiblity for you to believe.

As a matter of fact, i (and Falk) answer and refute every theist argument, there was no argument we could not argue/refute (from my point of view anyway). I think i was very clear on my answer, i did not only answer “i am right”, i always refute argument and counter-argument. So i don’t think i am making any fanatical move by remaining an atheist.

What would i need to be a theist again ? Well… not a miracles, i only request a logical argumentation, not a deformation of any physic law, but a real argument i could not refute. Argument from design or the Prime Factor argument does not impress me :)

:lol:

Even if I was convinced that “God” exist, I still wouldn’t follow its teachings.

Anything asking for praise, and if denied, punishes, is, well…… evil in a sense.
I would refuse to kneel before anything reguardless of the threats of eternal darkness and suffering.
Doesn’t sound like a nice guy to me.

"Thus, by their fruit you wil recongnize them."Not everyone who says to me,’ Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven., but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,’ Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly,’ I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer!
Matthew 7:20-23

That’s not very friendly if you ask me.
Do my will???
Whatever guy.

Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…

@Field:

Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…

i agree.
and i find that i learn more about myself and my faith as i express myself. I feel more connected to God as i discuss faith issues. At the same time, i do learn here as well.