NO's for 1942 second edition

I like this. Very simple. Very elegant. I’m going to have to borrow this for our next game. I’m going to make 8 Blue Allied Victory Tokens, 8 red Axis Victory Tokens and 1 Gold Victory Token.

A&A 1914 - Russian Civil War
At the end of the Mobilize New Units phase of any Russian turn starting in round 4, check to see if the conditions for the Bolshevik Revolution have been met. If the conditions are met, then the Bolshevik Revolution takes place immediately and Russia’s Collect Income phase is skipped. After the revolution is complete, Germany may begin their turn.

The Revolution Phase (Steps for setting up the Civil War):
1. All Russian and other Allied forces in Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan are retreated by moving those units one space to any adjacent territory controlled or contested by Russia or a friendly power or onto any friendly transports in an adjacent sea zone. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then they are removed from the game.
2. Retreat all Central Powers units and control markers from Moscow, Karelia, Tartarstan, and Kazakhstan in the same manner. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then move them to their respective capitals.
3. Introduce the Soviet Power and assign a Central Powers player to take the responsibility of controlling this new power.
4. Place Soviet units on the board as follows: 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Moscow, 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Karelia, 2 infantry in Kazakhstan, and 1 cruiser in zone 12.
5. Place a Soviet control marker on Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan. Place a Soviet control marker on the national production chart at 9 IPCs and then give 9 IPCs to the Soviets treasury.
6. Imperial Russia keeps any leftover IPCs in its treasury.

The Russian Civil War:
-It is a proxy conflict between the Red/Bolshevik (Soviet) forces supported by the Central Powers and the White/Nationalistic (Imperial) forces supported by the Allies.
-The Civil War begins immediately after the Revolution.
-The goal of Russia and the Allies is to take back Moscow and get Russia back in the war.
-The goal of the Soviets is to control of all of Russia and spread their influence if possible.

The Soviet Russian Republic is a new power. This new power follows the same turn phases as any other power and can purchase units and collect income from territories it controls and national objectives it completes. Soviet Russia’s capital is Moscow. Soviet Russia’s turn occurs at the end of the round after the USA and before Austria-Hungary. Soviet Russia is at war with all the Allied powers. For simplicity, the Soviet units use the red Central Powers chips and Soviet Russia is treated as a member of the Central Powers but with certain limitations regarding the movement of its units.

Per treaty of Brest-Litovsk, the territories that make up “Outer Russia” (Livonia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Finland, and Sevastopol) are ceded to the Central Powers. Soviet Russia must also recognize and respect the sovereignty of Persia and Afghanistan and Soviet land units cannot enter any these territories. The Central Powers also recognize Soviet Russia’s claim over the territories that make up “Inner Russia” (Karelia, Moscow, Tatarstan, and Kazakhstan) and cannot enter these territories. Soviet units can never enter a territory that was originally, or is currently controlled or contested by the Central Powers.
Soviet sea units can move through sea zones with Central Power but are not allowed to end their movement in any sea zone with Central Powers units. Soviet sea units are hostile to Allied units and are subject to the effects of sea mines of any Allied power.

Contested territories: If the Central Powers and Russia contest any territories in Outer Russia when the revolution occurs, the Imperial White forces there remain in combat with the Central Powers. They are allowed to retreat to any adjacent territory still controlled or contested by Imperial Russia on their turn of course per normal combat rules.

Since Moscow becomes the new Soviet capital and was never captured by any power through a combat, it does not count as a victory city for the Central Powers. When Imperial Russia takes back Moscow, this does not count as a victory city for the Allies.

The Revolution only happens once per game. If the Imperials have taken back Moscow, and are losing the war at the end of their turn and the conditions for Revolution are met, then no Revolution would occur.

While Soviets have Moscow, the Allies can capture and collect IPCs for Russian territories that they control, including Romania and Serbia. Once Moscow is back in Imperial hands, then all original Russian territories controlled by the Allies are reverted back to Imperial Russian control, including Romania and Serbia.

In the event of an Imperial victory, the Soviet Power is still in play and any remaining Soviet forces will remain on the board and participate. Imperials will collect any unspent IPCs left in the Soviet bank.

The Soviets do not need to control Moscow for a Central Powers victory in the game.

Design Note:
These rules do not simulate the Russian Republic of 1917, or any of the minor factions such as the independence movements, the Green armies, and the Black Army.

After a year break we played a game according to these rules yesterday.
Japan heavy navy focused getting Honolulu, Sydney, Rio de Janero and even San Francisco! Leading to a land war on the American continent.
Meanwhile Russia and Britain heavy focusing Germany, with conquering the whole of northern and eastern Europe (Oslo, Kiev).
But then, Germany seized an opportunity of taking London after Britain player overcomitted and did some bad rolls.
Axis win the game.

It was very confusing, and we did a lot of bad mistakes. But it was fun, and we really had a game with battles at totally new battlefields.

After Russia and Britain both starting very defensive, Germany and Japan player decided to play an altrenative strategy, attacking US. It worked at least partially. Germany forced to play defensive on land, losing total whole of east and north Europe (but defensive Russia took quite a while). Japan using heavy Navy and invading Australia, South America and finally even US west coast. Land war on the American continent between Japan West coast and US East coast (and Canada a bit). Few action in China at all…all players were turteling after the initial clashes. Money was needed elsewhere and infantry could hardly attack alone. Tank war in Africa between German Egypt and British South Africa. Both players had minor factories in africa, pumping tanks. Great navy clash in the northern Atlantic between US+Royal Navy and the German navy. To some bad rolls, British and US player losing atlantic fleet. Germany lost as well nearly whole fleet, but was able to invade exposed London and win the game. Maybe one turn later, the Russian steamroller would have taken Berlin.

The changes in Navy Balance (increase offensive power by chaper Battleship and Cruiser) as well as the alternative start setup allows for totally new strategies like “Kill US”. We are still not sure if this setup is balanced, we did only 3 games with this so far. I’d be happy about any feedback.

The Allies may indeed have problems getting numbers of units into Europe and Asia, but the whole reason they need to do this in the first place is because Russia has such woefully inadequate starting attack power!

The Soviets can barely trade with Germany or Japan for 2 territories a turn, before they start hemorrhaging ground units in the process, forced to make terrible trades at a loss just to prevent Axis blitz paths or landing spots. This means that the Germans can advanced along a broad front, with only modest sized stacks, and Russia is totally unable to contest them.

Instead, because they cant attack on their own, the Soviets are almost completely reliant on UK/USA to run direct counter attacks for them, against a relentless Axis advance. And this all happens in their own backyard, right in their own core Russian territories!

And its not as if Russia collapses only when they receive zero aid from the West (which might be understandable) but they collapse when they don’t receive the full maximum aid. Like literally almost all the UK/US ipcs from the early rounds dedicated just to holding the center.

The western Allies routinely send dozens of fighters and as many ground units as they can to prop up Moscow. And even then Moscow gets hammered.

Honestly if I was designing this thing from the ground up, I’d give Russia an airforce on par with the other powers. Like 3 fighters AND a bomber. Or hell even 4 fighters AND a bomber!

They’d still have the weakest starting airforce on the board.

I just think its rather lame, that the Russians are so nerfed in A&A. It feels totally ahistorical.

They had superior tanks to the Germans, even by the time this game is supposed to start, and yet it is the Germans who always tank drive. They had some the best fighter aircraft in the world by the time this game is supposed to start, and yet it is the Luftwaffe that always crushes. They had the numbers, and yet it is Germany who always pushes the massive ground stacks.

It just doesn’t look like World War 2.

The way the Royal Air Force is always camped out in Russia, and Monty is taking his tank columns on escapades through the Caucasus. For real?

If you want their income so low, they should have starting TUV. Or conversely, if you want them to have low starting TUV, then give them more income. But if you shaft them in both areas, then the game turns into this weird deal, with the western Allies running the show in Red territories.

The Russia design is just silly OOB. They have low income and as such will buy infantry and artillery as a matter of course, almost exclusively. They don’t need more inf, what they need is air power, so they can trade that infantry effectively, the way the other player nations do.

I think a single additional Russian bomber is a decidedly modest expansion compared to what they should really have, if you want to reflect their historical position during this period.

OK I am going to give that one its own thread in house rules so it doesn’t get lost and forgotten.  Simple fix to a few issues.  Sorry I didn’t mean to hijack this thread, but it seemed to have already switched topic from the Murmansk NO

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35771.0
I also added the phrase “on the Europe map” so Russia can’t get the NO for its cities by declaring war on Japan.

OK please go back to Murmansk

There is some modifications compared to the opening post of this actual thread (mostly about AAA, TcB, Cruiser and BB anti-air capacity):

Here is the most preeminent 9 features which revised actual units combat value and interaction in play:

First, except for 4 specific units: AAA’s, TcB’s, Fgs’ and Subs’ casualties, all casualties are now chosen by the owner and there is no specific order for any units, including Transports.

Anti-Aircraft Artillery now defends almost as OOB but in every round against up to 2 aircrafts,

Fighter A2 D2-3 M4 at 6 IPCs (hit plane first) and
a weaker Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, aiming at AAAs first and applying Combined Arms only to support Tank +1 offense or defense.
This makes two different planes with distinctive functions.
This fighter unit (remotely related to his 1914 counter-part) is the long awaited answer to this question: “why planes can’t hit planes in A&A?”

This also includes a still acceptable historical Strategic Bombing Raid escort and intercept combat values in which:
Fighter gets A2 D2-3,
Tactical Bombers A1 first strike
Strategic Bombers A1 first strike against up to 2 Fgs, whichever the lesser (works like the new AAA, for a single combat round).

3-planes Aircraft Carrier at 14 IPCs with 2 hits and defending @3 (carrying up to 3 planes whether Fighters or Tactical Bombers).
The defense is highered up to D3 to keep with a full 3 Fgs load a similar advantage (to OOB) over attacking Carrier with 3 TcBs.
In addition, G40.2 Carrier at 16 IPCs also receive an additional single opening first strike defensive AA capacity against up to 2 planes, similar to AAA unit.

A costlier Submarine A3 D1 at 7 IPCs with same offensive and lesser defensive combat value compared to OOB but an increase elusiveness against Destroyers,

Destroyer A2 D2 blocking submarines’ Surprise Strike as OOB, but 1:1 for Submerge (1 round only) and Stealth Move
In addition, any hit by planes against submarines is treated normally: planes need no more special presence of Destroyer to hit submarine.

Transport able to defend: A0 1D1 maximum per TPs group, 1 hit, at 8 IPCs and get a combat value which simplify interactions with other units.

A reduced cost structure for warships mostly based on Advanced Shipyard Tech,
keeping the OOB scale cost ratio between warships: 1 DD+ 1 CA= 1 BB.
Increasing Naval actions while keeping a high 8 IPCs for this transport unit, thus making it a more expensive sea-fodder (if someone choose to use them as such).

Also, it contains 2 additional units from HBG (to get a more complete historical roster of weapons) such as:
Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 which becomes a substantial and competitive units at 5 IPCs,
Escort Carrier D2, carrying 1 plane (Fg or TcB) (an historical 1/3 ratio of Fleet Carrier capacity) with Anti-Sub Vessel capacity same as Destroyer.

So, now you get my simpler complete A&A units historical roster incremented scale by 1 IPC from 3 IPCs to 10 IPCs, then 14, 16, 17 IPCs, and a smoother game mechanics.
It is as balance (within itself, IMO) and as close as possible from historical feel dynamics without too much sacrifice toward complexity.

The more interesting feature is the Fighter unit at same cost with Tank.
It is more able to figure the usefulness of Tank, Tactical Bomber and Fighter (3 important driving machine-weapons of WWII) on the battleground, not just Tank, and make them almost equivalent loss, from IPCs POV.

Tank (A3-4 D3-4 M2 C6) gets a better offensive and defensive punch and can be shielded by AAA, Infantry, Mechanized Infantry, Artillery, Mechanized Artillery and Heavy Artillery units as fodder. Also, the Tactical Bomber is giving it a +1 Air Support bonus.
This make now Tank the most important unit in ground combat.

Fighter (A2 D2-3 M4 C6) is more versatile on Sea / Air / Land but have a lower offensive and defensive punch than Tank, and is unable to conquer land territory by itself while being directly vulnerable to AAA unit and other Fighter.

Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, applying Combined Arms to support 1:1 Tank +1 offense or defense. But very vulnerable against Fighter while able to directly destroy AAA ground units.

This is a summary of their special abilities (some are house rules I already used and tested):

ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 CM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
Each round, up to 2 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).

INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery

MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank

ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.

TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz
Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Gets +1A/D from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with
Both bonus can apply.

FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units.
Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
1 Fighter units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (for 1942.2, 2 Fgs can scramble from a Victory City instead.)
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for 1 Fg if an operational Air Base is present.
Can scramble in adjacent SZ up to 4 Fgs: 3 defend @2 and 1 defend @3, getting the +1 Defense bonus from an operational Air Base.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

SUBMARINES A3 D1 M2 Cost 7
Surprise Strike, (blocked when at least 1 Destroyer or Anti-Sub Vessel is present),
Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
Cannot hit airplanes,
Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793

DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 7
Anti-Sub Vessel: each ASV blocks Surprise Strike capacity of all enemy’s Submarine units present.
Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
(When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.

TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
All hits are allocated to Anti-Aircraft Artillery units first, if any available, then other kind of units.
Combined Arms bonus with Tank, Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
Gives +1 Attack or Defense to any 1 Tank when paired 1:1.
SBR/TcBR Attack @1 first strike,
Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

TRANSPORT A0 1Def@1 Maximum per TPs group M2 Cost 8, 1 hit
A transports group get a single defense roll @1/round along with defending warships
(for this single defense roll, friendly transports are all considered being part of the same defending player’s group),
and each transport unit can be taken individually as casualty. As long as their is still 1 TP remaining, it can roll this single defense @1.
OPTIONAL: CONVOY protection
To get less impact on the opening set-up battles, a lone transport at the start of a combat gets no defense roll but can be used as a fodder, since it still has 1 hit value. If a transport becomes single during a battle, it still get a defense roll @1, for the duration of the combat.

Simplifying units interactions of Transports, Submarines, Destroyers & planes
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1320853#msg1320853
Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212

(1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, added for completeness
Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer,
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

CRUISER A3 D3 M2 Cost 10
Shore bombardment @3
Combined Anti-Air Defense when at least 1 Carrier is present: each Cruiser gets up to 1 preemptive shots @1 against up to 1 plane.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

Strategic BOMBER A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 2 IPCs.
No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Rethinking Air Units
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015

1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.

G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
Fleet Carrier is an Anti-Air platform: AAA get up to 2 preemptive shots @1 against up to two planes.
AND can also gets
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.

BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 17, 2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
Combined Anti-Air Defense when at least 1 Carrier is present: each BB gets up to 1 preemptive shots @1 against up to 1 plane.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

SBR/TBR escort and intercept combat values:
Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3 (+1 to 1 Fg from an operational Air Base)
Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 first strike Defense 0
Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 first strike , as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.

I would allow 2 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft.
DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for 2 or 3 types of aircraft:

Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),

Limited landing in a just conquered territory (which includes at least 1 ground unit): 2 planes (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as each units can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.

I hope you will comment this whole A&A game changer (and feel free to talk about any features above, if you ever tried in your own F2F A&A game).

New cost structure and document in this thread:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36833.msg1469053#msg1469053

Other than the Russian bomber added to the setup, I highly doubt any of my group will want house rules for a game that we just started playing… especially with my history of changing the Global rules… LOL. Nice idea, but I probably won’t be able to introduce house rules until my group gets board of the game in a year or 2 (maybe even 3).

if i had nukes tech i would build a stack of bombers and nuke every opposing territory within range,
for 45 - 50 I.P.C. i could build 3 -4 bombers and nuke territories with no opposition with the superfortress tech,
getting nuke tech needs a twist because of the damage that it can do,
simply getting lucky by rolling a tech that has nukes tech combined would be a game killer, i think that a cost for nukes that would force a player to factor the cost of nukes into the I.P.C. spend would make nukes plausable within a set of house rules,