Fall of Moscow, worth continuing?

@panther Thank you very much panther…

@krieghund Thanks krieghund…

@Du-Bist-Toten said in General Questions:

FURTHERMORE, the rules introduce another VERY interesting concept. They actually say that a sub can be held hostage in a zone, unable to go anywhere unless 1) the enemy destroyer above it leaves or 2) the sub fights its way out. In other words, a sub, when under an enemy destroyer, must either fight or “be frozen”. So it’s kinda trapped! Just move your destroyer to the same zone as a sub and then choose not to fight it; then the sub will be frozen until you move! The sub won’t attack you on the sub’s “turn” (even though the option is there) if the firepower of your fleet above it is too powerful! This “freezing of the sub” occurs because the rules say “If a submarine enters a sea zone containing an enemy destroyer, it MUST end its movement there.”

I’m afraid you’ve got this wrong. The rule you quoted means that a sub must stop if it encounters an enemy destroyer after it starts moving. If it begins its movement in such a zone, it may leave, as it did not enter the zone during its movement. Moving into a zone with an enemy destroyer merely stops a sub’s current movement - it does not pin the sub indefinitely.

So my question here is as follows: If a sub decides to fight it’s way out, and after one round of combat an enemy destroyer is still above it, can the sub just “chill out” and “just be frozen under the water” again AFTER the enemy retaliates for that round? OR does the sub have to fight to the death?

In this situation, if a sub were to attack rather than move away, it would have to fight to the death, as it could not submerge and would have no legal way to retreat. However, as I mentioned above, it may leave the zone, so it could move to an adjacent friendly zone and come back in combat movement before attacking, thus establishing a retreat route.

BUT, if NO DESTROYER is present, can the sub attack the fleet above for just one round, and then move two spaces away during non-combat movement IF the counter fire didn’t kill the sub? If a destroyer IS present above and the sub DOES kill it, can the sub move two spaces away during non-combat movement?

Neither of these is legal. Any land or sea unit that either made a combat movement or participated in combat may not move in noncombat movement.

I hope this helps.

If Russia is aggressive in its first move, all things considered, it’s game over for the Axis. It’s why I favor a house rule that forces the USA to spend a certain amount of money in the Pacific Theater-and units purchased can only be used in that theater of operations…

@cernel said in Playing in 2017 still, General Strategy/Discussion:

That submarine is making a battle with an average +10 value swing there (140% the value of the attacking force!), which is more than sending it to kill the lone British transport

Actually, sending the German submarine which is in the North Atlantic to kill the transport next to Eastern Canada (average +7) instead of taking the shot against the 1 cruiser and 2 transports next to Eastern United States (average +10) is some less than a -3 difference since, if using it to kill the British transport, then nothing can kill the submarine on the same round, whereas the 50% chance of the submarine surviving next to Eastern United States implies the ability for the Americans to make a battle with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 bomber (or even more units) against 1 submarine, which is an about +4.4 value swing, to be reduced to +2.2 on the account that the submarine will be there only 50% of the times. So that covers at least most (2.2/3) of the difference between the two options the submarine has if you actually think that having that submarine alive next to Eastern Canada at the start of the second German turn is actually worth its value or more. Opinions?

In any case, the battle next to Eastern United States is certainly a good option which your opponent may take and, in this case, it will be a 50/50 on either:

Germany having 1 less submarine for nothing. America having 1 less cruiser, 2 less transports and having to invest units to kill 1 German submarine, with slightly more than a 1/6 chance also to lose 1 destroyer in the process.

@amp12 What were you doing with these Allied countries in Europe at the same time? Just curious.

For the pieces it is a great deal for 25$
but i prefer revised then 1942

but i prefer 1942 2nd ed  :-)

I would be surprised if Germany had Africa and then wasted those IPC’s on subs. Seems counterproductive.