New to the Game!

[murphybilly82]

Answer to Question 3 example: If U.S. troops move on to a U.K. country such as India.Next turn the united kingdom attacks japan from India The U.S. forces stay behind.Now if japan attacks India U.S. troops , and U.K. troops defend.If playing with more then three people the player that is the U.S. rolls for the U.S. and the player that is U.K. rolls for the U.K.'s defence.

[frimmel]

@AA:

Thanks for any help you can offer - its very much appreciated. I can see a potential addiction to this game growing!  :-D

Well, I’m sure most of us here would be more than happy to enable your addiction.

[AA]

Thanks for all the responses!

I think I understand your responses to my Question 3. Just to make sure:

Can you actually move your units into a territory that is occupied by other friendly units? (ie If I am the US can I move my units during my non combat move into a territory occupied by units from Russia so we have 2 DIFFERENT friendly units in one terrritory)? If so, if Russia was to attack from this territory during  Russia’s combat move I assume they could ONLY attack with Russian units (not US units) whereas if that territory was attacked by an Axis force both US and Russian units would have to defend and could be lost in the battle???

Also, if a territory is enemy owned but UNOCCUPIED can I just walk in there on my turn with my infantry (or any other units) and occupy it or can this only be captured by Blitzing with tanks?

Thanks! I’m trying to play another round tonight with the same friends…!

[SSG Rock]

AA,

Your assumptions are correct concerning question 3.  As a matter of fact, this is a favorite way to help Russia’s defense.  UK and US stack forces in MOS territory to keep Axis (usually Japan) from taking that Ally.

If an enemy territory is owned but not occupied, you can move any land force into that territory to claim it as your own.  Tanks, of course, can blitz through that territory on the way to another and claim it in passing.

Good luck on the game. :-D

[AA]

Thanks SSG Rock,

I’m sure more questions will come up as we play.
As we are new it seems that questions come up all the time (and with each move)!
I hope you don’t mind me posting new (basic) questions as we go!

Thanks again!

[AA]

Hey everyone, I have a couple more questions and hope you don’t mind:

1. If an attacker wins a battle must the attacker move all remaining units from combat into the territory that they defeated? (I assume that this excludes air units which must land in another friendly territory/aircraft carrier that has been occupied since the beginning of the turn)?

2. If you or another friendly power owns a territory and it is completely unoccupied can your own aircraft land in it? (I believe the answer is YES but I thought I may have read that this is not possible but I could be mistaken by what I read…)

3. If you fire an antiaircraft gun at 1 bomber and 1 fighter entering your territory does the defender get to choose which aircraft is hit (as is the case with standard combat) or are the dice rolled individually for each aircraft?

4. If I attack an enemy territory with only a bomber and win the battle my bomber can’t land and occupy that territory. Is it correct to assume the bomber must now land (in a territory within its range (6) from the combat territory) and the territory that I (technically) won remains the possession of my enemy until I occupy it with land units (ie infantry, artilery or tanks)?

5. This is a tricky one:
Say I am the UK and my bomber has done some damage to a territory and wants to land on a US carrier which is currently out of range. Can it land there if the US agrees to make a non combat move to a position where it is within range (on the US’ next move during the same phase) or must it be one of my own aircraft carriers that must move there on this non combat move?

6. If you have Rockets development can you continue to damage one particular IC every turn? Are there any restrictions? (As Germany I suffered badly in Southern Europe every turn from Russian Rockets in Caucasus and was wondering whether this was legitimate……)

Thanks again!  :-)

[rjclayton]

2nd Edition Rules (classic A&A)

1. Yes, an attacker must occupy the territory or sea zone with all surviving units if no defending units remain.  Air units then use their remaining movement to land somewhere.

2. Yes, you can land aircraft in any friendly territory or sea zone, even if the territory is unoccupied.

3. We always rolled the dice separately, but I believe the rules have been clarified to say that the attacker chooses which planes are casualties.  Can someone else confirm this?

4. Air units cannot capture territories.  The territory would remain in your opponents possession until one of your land units captures it during combat movement/combat.

5. Bombers can never land on carriers.  Only fighters can land on carriers.  Fighters can land on friendly carriers, but the carrier must be in range, or if the carrier was a UK carrier, must move in range during movement that turn.  So no, the US cannot “agree” to move a carrier during their turn.  Otherwise you would have a fighter floating in the middle of the atlantic all by itself!

6. Rockets can be used every turn, against the same IC if you wish (no restrictions).  That is what makes them useful.  If you think they are too powerful, try getting heavy bombers and have 6 or more bombers working for you each turn.  You’ll soon realize rockets are not as powerful as you thought.

Rob

[Guest]

In second Ed (Classic), the nation flying the planes decides what is lost to AA fire.

That DID change in Revised.

[AA]

Thanks  :-D

In relation to my Q1:
@rjclayton:

Air units then use their remaining movement to land somewhere.

Does this mean that if I have a fighter (move=4) and move that fighter 3 spaces (from where it started) to the attacking territory that fighter then has only 1 space left to move and land after combat? What happens to it if there is no friendly territory within 1 move of the attacked territory? Can the move be made by the fighter or not? Does the attacker have to declare where an aircraft will land after battle (if it survives) before making the combat move?

I have just realised that I said bomber instead of fighter in Q5 and am trying to imagine a bomber landing on an aircraft carrier :)

Also, once a battle has begun extra reinforcements can’t be brought in after combat has begun. Is that correct? In other words, the attcaker must either keep fighting until someone dies or retreat and wait for the next move to bring in more units to combat (even if these units are already within a legal move of combat)?

Thanks.

[frimmel]

You can’t move a FTR to a combat from which it won’t have a place to land. Nor a BOM. No suicide runs for your planes. You don’t have to declare where but there has to be someplace. It gets a little trickier when you start dealing with ACs and moving to SZs but there has to be a way for the aircraft to land safely. I don’t think you are locked into that if your combats go awry.

All combat movement happens at once. Once dice hit the table you are locked into what you have put into your chosen battles. Can’t move “unit set A” into a battle and have a terrible round of dice go “I need more stuff” and add in “unit set B.” “Unit set A” is all there is. Can’t change what is in your other battles after seeing the results of your first battle.

[AA]

So you mean if I am having multiple battles (say in Southern Europe, Russia and Australia) on my combat turn I must:

1. State in advance all the units that will be involved in each of the battles in Southern Europe, Russia and Australia before any of the battles take place.

2. Once I roll the first dice for the first battle all of the units that I have committed in step 1 in all of the 3 battles cannot be reinforced with extra units during battle (I can only retreat if I do not want to see out the battle).

Can you also clarify I have the correct idea with the move of an aircraft (or any unit in general including sea units). I mean is the move the total number of spaces an aircraft (or unit) can travel before and after battle or is it the amount of spaces that an aircraft (unit) can move before battle and it can also move this many spaces after battle.
(ie a FTR can only move 4 spaces in total including before and after battle rather than move 4 spaces before battle enter a territory for battle and then move 4 spaces after battle aswell).

Thanks

[rjclayton]

1. correct
2. correct
3. fighters have 4 total movement, meaning they can move up to 4 spaces between combat moves (CM) and non-combat moves (NCM) ie. CM=1 NCM=3 or CM=2 NCM=2 or CM=3 NCM=1.  You also don’t need to use all your movement (ie. CM=1 NCM=2 etc.)

Rob

[AA]

Thanks Rob!

Now I am going to try and sus out all the sea movements!

[Genosse]

Hi,
I have a couple of questions on A&A revised.

1. Do BBs always take two hits to destroy or only when defending? The manual implies “always”, but according to the setup charts it is “defending” only.

2. Does bridging into an enemy territory count as an amphibious assault?

3. On amphibious assaults the manual says (p.19) “During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing <…>” When can the landing be called off? Before the combat begins in this area? After the first attack turn. Suppose there is BB assisting, can it do the naval bombardment while the landing is called off?

4. For SBRs, does each bomber who rolled <4 decreases IPCs by the territory value? E.g., if 3 bombers successfully SBR UK is it minus 8 or minus 3*8=24 IPC? The manual (p.21) states that “<…> each bomber can inflict no more IPC loss than the territory’s income value”. Does it mean that one bomber can inflict less IPC loss than a territory value (other than 0, of course)? Same for the rockets development: “the maximum each rocket can inflict is the territory’s income value” (p.25).

Thanks in advance!

[cyan]

1. always
2.yes

3. i know you can’t retreat once the units are off landed onto the territory. it doesn’t matter if a bb is bombarding or not. if you don;t attack any units with your tansport goods i think oyou can call it off( better let someone else say so)
4. the uk ic can only lose 8 ipcs or less for that turn someone else can better explian because if i go into anymore detail i will be thinking of the LHTR rules.

[frimmel]

@Genosse:

Hi,
I have a couple of questions on A&A revised.

1. Do BBs always take two hits to destroy or only when defending? The manual implies “always”, but according to the setup charts it is “defending” only.

Always.

2. Does bridging into an enemy territory count as an amphibious assault?

Yes it does. Best to get the whole bridging thing out of your head. They load and off load into combat making it a amphib assault. That the transport moves or stays in the same sea zone is not the relevant portion.

3. On amphibious assaults the manual says (p.19) “During the conduct combat phase, that player may call off the landing <…>” When can the landing be called off? Before the combat begins in this area? After the first attack turn. Suppose there is BB assisting, can it do the naval bombardment while the landing is called off?

Amphibious assaults can not be called off. Aircraft may be retreated (called off) at the end of any round but the ground troops motto is “Victory or Death.”

4. For SBRs, does each bomber who rolled <4 decreases IPCs by the territory value? E.g., if 3 bombers successfully SBR UK is it minus 8 or minus 3*8=24 IPC? The manual (p.21) states that “<…> each bomber can inflict no more IPC loss than the territory’s income value”. Does it mean that one bomber can inflict less IPC loss than a territory value (other than 0, of course)? Same for the rockets development: “the maximum each rocket can inflict is the territory’s income value” (p.25).

Thanks in advance!

I think one ruleset (OOB) is in UK’s case up to 8 for each plane. I think LHTR is only 8 no matter how many planes. Frankly I don’t SBR with more than one plane enough or get SBR’d with more than one plane enough to have worried about it. Also during an SBR the Bomber doesn’t need to roll “to hit.” If it lives thru AA it does its xD6 worth of damage. No need to roll a four or under first.

[Genosse]

cyan, frimmel - thanks a lot!
1-3 are clear now.

As for #4, I am interested in the interpretation of the A&A Revised set rules. I am new to the game and so far just try to “play it by the rules”. :-) What I was wondering, if it is legal to send several, say, US bombers to Germany and ruin its economy, thus opening the room for other Allies (the thing that happened in every game I played so far).

[cyan]

@Genosse:

cyan, frimmel - thanks a lot!
1-3 are clear now.

As for #4, I am interested in the interpretation of the A&A Revised set rules. I am new to the game and so far just try to “play it by the rules”. :-) What I was wondering, if it is legal to send several, say, US bombers to Germany and ruin its economy, thus opening the room for other Allies (the thing that happened in every game I played so far).

per bomber  just checcked the rules. so germany can lose UPTO 10ipcs per bomber) makes no sense to me but thats the rules of OOB.

OOB is the regular rules whie lLHTR rules are published by the inventor of the game and corrects the few mistakes. it basically stragetic bombing, sub, and tech clariactions.

[Guest]

An Amphib CAN be called off, but only by retreating from/losing a preceding naval battle.  However, even in that case, aircraft sent to attack the land territory are already “on target” and must engage in 1 round of combat before retreating.  Once combat declarations are made, combat WILL engage unless you are unable to engage (such as with the failled naval battle before the amphib assault)

As for SBR…

I do not use the Operation Manual that comes with the game, and the printed SBR rules are part of the reason.  The way it is written, SBR’s are WAY too powerful (even worse than Heavy Bombers from Classic).  LHTR (Larry Harris Tournament Rules) correct and clarify the SBR rules so that:
1.  AA rolls against each and every BOM ONCE.
2.  Each surviving BOM rolls 1d6 to determine IPC’s of damage (no to hit roll needed, just roll $1 to $6 damage per BOM)
3.  Damage is capped to be a MAXIMUM for all bombers as the IPC value of the territory being bombed.

So…

England has 3 BOM.  They send all 3 to SBR Germany.
AA is rolled 3 times. 
One 1 is rolled, so 1 BOM shot down. 
Remaining 2 bombers roll damage.
UK player rolls a 6 and a 5 for $11 IPC of damage.
But Germany is worth only $10 IPC as a territory, so the actual damage is the maximum that UK can inflict this turn, $10 IPC.

Now, USA can ALSO Bom Germany in their move, and do up to $10 MORE in SBR damage.  So in theory, Germany itself can be bomed for up to $30 IPC of damage each and every turn… $10 by USSR (if they ever buy bombers :-D )  $10 UK, and $10 USA.

However, if you have a LOT of Bombers, you can send some to one factory, and some to another (within range).  So the UK could SBR both Germany AND Southern, and thus have the potential to do up to $16 IPC of damage (10 for Germany, 6 for Southern)

Hope that helps.

[cyan]

i misintrepeted the rules that way before i heard of LHRt.