Germany Navy, Again

[wilkinson1974]

You would send the planes naked?  A good way of losing fighters…  Where will the troops come from?  If you pull them from Germany, the transport won’t be able to move to sz7 in the second round.  If the Russians leave just one inf in Karelia in the first round, you can’t bring anything from eastern europe to aid in the counter.  And yes…  that would be four dead units…  and the Brits bring in another 4 in the second round.  If you are using planes to kill Brits, they aren’t being used on the Russian front.  The Russians can stalemate that front for at least 4rounds since their supply lines are shorter than the Germans, especially if the fighters are being used to kill Brits in Norway.

[wilkinson1974]

I always attack the 3 troops on Norway(plane has probably been moved to the AC after an attack somewhere on Russian front) in the first round with 2inf, a cannon, a tank, 2 fighters, and bombardment.  Usually, three brits units are left standing with Norway in Brit control.  Most Germans wouldn’t give up planes to hit those troops.  4 units come the next round if Germany decides to counter.  They won’t be able to counter with ground troops if they wish to stockpile the fleet at sz7 in the second round.

Wilk

@wilkinson1974:

You would send the planes naked?  A good way of losing fighters…  Where will the troops come from?  If you pull them from Germany, the transport won’t be able to move to sz7 in the second round.  If the Russians leave just one inf in Karelia in the first round, you can’t bring anything from eastern europe to aid in the counter.  And yes…  that would be four dead units…  and the Brits bring in another 4 in the second round.  If you are using planes to kill Brits, they aren’t being used on the Russian front.  The Russians can stalemate that front for at least 4rounds since their supply lines are shorter than the Germans, especially if the fighters are being used to kill Brits in Norway.

[wilkinson1974]

It just seems to me that in each game I have played…  After the remainder of the German fleet is dispatched in the 4th round, the UK is able to invade western E. in force, and the US is in a position to hard reinforce after the attack.  If Russia has supplied just enough pressure in the East, Germany doesn’t have enough firepower to take Western E back.  The Brits will reinforce Western E again, and build a factory, and the US hard reinforces again in the 6th round.  The Germans won’t try to counter because GB will be in a position to assault Germany directly if they don’t stockpile some ground units.  The 7th round is an  all out assault by the British(which Germany holds).  Britain builds on the factory.  Then the US follows with a secondary assault that typically finishes Germany off, then the US drops off more units in Western Europe.  It seems the Japan always takes at least 6 rounds to capture Moscow because of the long supply lines.  Even if Moscow falls the round before Germany, Japan isn’t fast enough to reinforce.  Trading Moscow for Berlin is a win for the Allies.  I am merelt testing out the theory of leaving Africa for a couple of rounds while you merge the fleets.  It seems to me Germany needs to get into the money well of Africa early.  And the earlier the better.

Wilk

[trihero]

the UK is able to invade western E. in force

Why isn’t Germany defending it adequately?

It’s very easy to predict how many troops can hit Western Europe, because they all come from transports. If you have a stack of like 15+ infantry then how is the UK cracking it? Especially if you have Africa money to boost your income?

[wilkinson1974]

At this point, the UK will have 5 transports in the water.  Remember, with the Germans not getting into Africa immediately, the UK will be collecting at least 33 IPCS(Norway) a round for at least the first 3 rounds.  And, I also mentioned futher in my paragraph…  If the Russians are applying pressure…  The Russians can apply pressure to Germany if the planes are kept in the West to fight Naval battles(planes that also get lost in Naval battles).  Britain with some luck can bring 5 inf, 5 cannons, 2-3 fighters, a bomber, and bomabrdment against Germany in Western Europe.  If the Germans are pulling units to fight Russians(they would be steadily losing IPCs if they aren’t), they can’t be guarding Western Europe.  Letting Russians consolidate their early land grabs can be just as deadly.  Is it even mathematically possible to keep all your eastern territory, and stockpile in western europe, when you don’t have the African budget the first 3 rounds(by virtue of the SZ7 strategy)?  I have yet to see Germany win a game without getting into Africa early in any of the games I have played.  This is why I played the games…  And posted what I have found to this point.  Rather than attacking my results…  Play the games out and post the results.  I think the strategy has viability.  I am just looking for a way to make it work.

Wilk

[trihero]

I question your strategy seriously. How is the UK sitting in Norway for the first 3 rounds? Unless he wishes to sacrifice his navy, this simply isn’t feasible if the Germans have a carrier in the Baltic. You can invade it with 2 transports worth of stuff on Round 1, but then the Baltic navy will come in and sweep your transports away, which is a horrible trade. It becomes very difficult to kill the Baltic navy if you sacrifice your navy on UK’s second turn.

At this point, the UK will have 5 transports in the water.

At what point? After he magically destroyed the Baltic fleet without any casualties? What if I move out the Baltic fleet to block Western Europe? You might be able to kill it, but you lost probably all your transports.

I’m not attacking your results, I’m attacking your strategy.

[trihero]

The Russians can apply pressure to Germany if the planes are kept in the West to fight Naval battles(planes that also get lost in Naval battles).

That’s the beauty of the carrier. You have 2 fighters that can help with any of the German fronts, and the bomber is going to be in range as well. Plus, any fighters in Western Europe can attack Karelia and return to Western Europe. I wouldn’t sacrifice fighters against the Allied navy unless I really thought it was necessary or I could do it without sacrificing any.

[wilkinson1974]

It isn’t my strategy…  Someone else came up with the idea about merging the fleets at SZ7 in the second round as an Axis strategy.  I am saying that fleet won’t last long if GB keeps putting AC’s in the water, and the US plants planes on them, and bring its destroyers.  The merge strategy leaves the Suez open in round 1 since Germany doesn’t attack Egypt on Jordan in the 1st round. Germany in the 3rd round has a choice to make…   Sink the Brit fleet with its 2-3 trannies in the North(a fleet which can grow of the follwoing round to parity) or the US destroyers with the four trannies that have taken Algeria in force.   In my games, I attacked(and sank) the Brit fleet in the 3rd round off of Norway, taking considerable losses…  In the same 3rd round, GB has the ability to drop an AC and a tranny in SZ7.  The Indian fleet consolidates with its tranny.  The US drops 2 fighters on the AC and consolidates the destroyers.  GB has the ability to drop 3 trannies  in round 4.  There are the 5 trannies for the assault in round 5.  You will have 2 fighters from the indian plane…  and the plane picked by the indian fleet on their pass through the Med.  The Bomber might survive to this point as well.  The UK can also slowly build ground units on the island while the navy plays out.  They always had 5inf and 5 cannons at the beginning of the 5th round.  I am not just pulling these numbers out of thin air.

Wilk

[trihero]

They always had 5inf and 5 cannons at the beginning of the 5th round

That’s plenty of time to get enough defense in Western Europe. 5 rounds is a long time.

[wilkinson1974]

You would send naked fighters against Britis ground forces in Norway and Karelia?  In German merge strategy, the Baltic tranny moves with the fleet into SZ7 on G2.  Therefore, you can’t bring ground units to protect your attacking fighters if you want to go after the British units in Norway on G2 or G3.  The Russians don’t have the units to push from the North…  They will push from the south.  The British would only be a moderate distraction in the North.  They have prortection from the water in Norway in round 2(brits still have control of Norway), and all of them(6-7 units) move into Karelia on GB3(No the Germans won’t stockpile in Karelia since they are outnumbered in the south).

Again…  the German merge strategy is not mine.  I am only looking for a way to make it viable.  So far, I have found the Allies can counter it.

Wilk

@trihero:

The Russians can apply pressure to Germany if the planes are kept in the West to fight Naval battles(planes that also get lost in Naval battles).

That’s the beauty of the carrier. You have 2 fighters that can help with any of the German fronts, and the bomber is going to be in range as well. Plus, any fighters in Western Europe can attack Karelia and return to Western Europe. I wouldn’t sacrifice fighters against the Allied navy unless I really thought it was necessary or I could do it without sacrificing any.

[wilkinson1974]

The question is…  Can you do it without the money being generated from Africa, with the Russians pushing in the south(knocking you back 5-6 IPCs from round 1), the British stinking their nose in the North(taking another 3 IPCs round 1), taking heavy losses while sinking the British fleet.  In the games I have played to this point…  You can’t cover all sides.  Please read all my posts over again.  I shouldn’t have to post how every round went for you get an idea that Germany was being attacked in the South, in the North, in the Med, and in the North Sea.  The US was pushing 35IPCs into Germany every round, GB was pushing 33, and the Russians pushed 27-30.  Every round for the 4 rounds…  After that the USSR had to back off due to the Japanese.  However, by that time…  The German fleet was destroyed.  The US had the capacity to ferry at least 6 units a round into Europe, and GB could ferry 4(with 10 being possible in round 5).  The Germans were only producing at about 35 a round the first 3 rounds since the Med tranny never ferried troops to Egypt.  They ferried to algeria which was overrun by the 8 american troops in US2.    If the Germans moved the algerian forces and libyan forces in egypt in G3, they could get into africa at that point.  The means Germany was being outbuilt roughly 95 to 35 in the first 3 rounds.  That is what I am wondering…  Can Germany last 8 rounds being outproduced 60IPCs the first 4 rounds, and being outbuilt by 30IPCs over the next 4?  I am not seeing it as a possibility.

Wilk

@wilkinson1974:

You would send naked fighters against Britis ground forces in Norway and Karelia?  In German merge strategy, the Baltic tranny moves with the fleet into SZ7 on G2.  Therefore, you can’t bring ground units to protect your attacking fighters if you want to go after the British units in Norway on G2 or G3.  The Russians don’t have the units to push from the North…  They will push from the south.  The British would only be a moderate distraction in the North.  They have prortection from the water in Norway in round 2(brits still have control of Norway), and all of them(6-7 units) move into Karelia on GB3(No the Germans won’t stockpile in Karelia since they are outnumbered in the south).

Again…  the German merge strategy is not mine.  I am only looking for a way to make it viable.  So far, I have found the Allies can counter it.

Wilk

@trihero:

The Russians can apply pressure to Germany if the planes are kept in the West to fight Naval battles(planes that also get lost in Naval battles).

That’s the beauty of the carrier. You have 2 fighters that can help with any of the German fronts, and the bomber is going to be in range as well. Plus, any fighters in Western Europe can attack Karelia and return to Western Europe. I wouldn’t sacrifice fighters against the Allied navy unless I really thought it was necessary or I could do it without sacrificing any.

[Thamor]

It’s so strange how you easily take out Soviets alone with Germans, I don’t say that it’s not possible. But your group is playing really badly  if soviets can’t keep the Germans off, when Germans are even using their planes in naval battles.

Let’s make a summary of this strategy.

S1
-Soviet sub to block baltic fleet
G1
-AC purchased to Baltic, 2figs land there
-Med fleet move to merge with baltic fleet in sz7, it has 1bb 1trans 1sub
-Figs try to destroy soviet sub
-Bomber + 1fig help to take out anglo-egypt so 1inf 1arm 1fig 1bomb.
-Is the UK destroyer in med taken out with planes? And what planes? If 1fig is used in anglo-egypt, you can only attack it with 1fig, not so good odds. If 2figs used, you would take a high gamble in anglo-egypt, with 1inf 1arm 1bomb.

Egypt would look really bad, but anyway my point was how to counter the merging of those fleets.

UK1
-AC purchased, 1fig to land on AC purchased, 4ipc saved or 1art purchased.
-UK fleet form up in sz7, 1transport moves to replace soviet sub if it’s destroyed by the Germans
-UK indian fleet move to med if the route is open, or optional they open the route by attacking anglo-egypt with 3inf 1fig.
-UK airforce 2figs, 1bomber attack the German med fleet, 2 rounds of combat is enough, to destroy the transport and sub, after that  consolidate your bomber and with luck 1fighter back to england.

USA this is really optional, either buy something to try hold the Japan steamhorse or full KGF tactic. I will go with full KGF.

USA1
-Buy 1fig, 2trans, 1dest, 1art
-Attack the med fleet on the coast of algeria, 2trans, 1dest, 1bomb. Because the british have already destroyed at minimum 1sub/1trans or both of them. The lonely BB is easy prey. If there is only the BB, take 1inf with you to take algeria. After this attack the med fleet should be totally wasted, freeing africa for UK, and keeping the fleets from merging.
-Bomber moves to UK and 1fig is placed on UK AC, so on sz7 there will be 1-2trans, 1BB, 1AC + 2figs(UK&USA figs)
-USA Hawaii fighter moves to russia, West Coast fighter moves to East Coast or Alaska, where it will fly to russia.
-All Purchases to East Coast, leave Japan to ramble on it’s own, it will take a long time before it can do anything really bad, USA could  start moving it’s 1trans, 1BB to Atlantic sea, and panama destroyer is moved to Eastern coast

S2 I won’t do any land battle moves

G2 Now this is really hard for germans, what should they do. They have the option to waste british fleet, but with great loss of AF. Well what here has always been done, you sacrifice your planes heedlessly.

-1 fig is used to destroy the UK trans or soviet sub if it really survived G1
-2 Subs 4figs 1bomb attack the UK fleet. (1fig can’t move from Libya to sz7)

7hit attack force against 6hit UK fleet. Germans will waste this fleet on round 1, but the fighters survive or if the germans continue to round to destroy everything then most likely germany will be after this battle lost 2subs 2-3figs. The loss of this navy isn’t so bad to UK.

-Baltic fleet moves to sz7?? Or I don’t think so, what is the point anymore when the med fleet have been wasted by the allies.

UK2
-Buy AC, 1trans, 2inf placed to sz8, where USA fleet merges with this new UK fleet
-Bomber maybe SBR or moved to Russia to slow down Japan juggernaut, it can always come back from there to help take out the rest of German fleet when the time comes.

USA2
-East Coast should have 2figs now if the West coast fig moved there, this figs move to UK carrier and all surviviving USA Navy consolidate on sz8, where plans for D-Day can begin.
-BB and trans moved to East coast
-Buy 2trans 2inf 2arm, 8ipc save or 1sub

What do you think of this? I have always thought the merging of med fleet and baltic is fools job, it the Allies know what they are doing. Egypt is in firm control of allies, because of India fleet and troops moving there, with those inf and 1fig they can take africa to UK, to replace loss of India to Japan. Germans have lost a lot of planes in taking out UK fleet, weakening their power greatly and the soviet front looks very good for allies who have after turn 2. 1UK trans and 2USA trans ready to sail where they want them, most likely to Norway where they will disrupt the german armies marching towards moscow. 1BB 2trans 1sub is ready to sail from east coast to threaten the Baltic fleet and 3-4 figs + 1-2 bombers will be the Force that takes it down and the Germans don’t have much choice in that.

I can explain this hand to hand if you don’t understand, but you should from this long post. Do you play with national advantages? We always play with 1random advantage, only rule that we have changed is that USA don’t get Super Bombers, if USA player rolls number 6, he can choose the advantage from the last 5.

[Thamor]

Just have to point out this, You should only try merging if the Allies go KJF. The british will lose a lot of IPC to wrong places. Just wait one turn before revealing your plan to the allies, but the med fleet can’t survive with only 1bb 1trans 1sub, only choice is on turn 1 more  fleets, but that will really drain the forces in eastern front. And not taking africa, no transports in med, Africa will be firmly in UK hands and gaining 25-30ipc a turn. Too much, in my opinion.

Just wait and see what the allies will try to do, and gather more power to germans. If you don’t move to merge your fleets, UK will most likely buy 1IC on it’s first turn, so no carrier on turn 1.

The Baltic fleet is sacrifice fleet to slow down the british, when they try to move in force to block you to baltic, then you hit them with everything you got, rest of the turns you move powerfully towards russia and hold africa to gain those extra ipc and weaken UK. You are strong and gaining more turns with this tactic, and Japan will be so much closer when the time comes for Allies to trying to hammer on your coasts, and you are still in good shape if you have your med fleet intact. 'nuff said. This will be my last rambling of this point. I got good ideas from what everybody said, but most of them helped me to figure out the good moves for Allies more than Axis. The more I have played the more powerful I am with Allies and more closer to take the victory with them, than axis. And I    almost always get the Germans. They are the most hardest country to play and think what to do.

[wilkinson1974]

Thank you, Thamor.

I was getting tired of getting raked across coals…

It is not economically feasible for the Germans to hold off a Russian push, let alone take the Russians, without the monetary backing from Africa.  They are simply caught on too many fronts.  Your breakdown is a little different in the Allied strategy that I had in my mock games, but the result was the same.  The German fleet being out of the picture by round 4 with Germany falling in round 7 while Moscow is sacrificed to the Japanese in round 6 or 7.  Berlin for Moscow is a win for the Allies…  Moscow is librerated 3-4 rounds after Berlin falls.

@Thamor:

It’s so strange how you easily take out Soviets alone with Germans, I don’t say that it’s not possible. But your group is playing really badly  if soviets can’t keep the Germans off, when Germans are even using their planes in naval battles.

Let’s make a summary of this strategy.

S1
-Soviet sub to block baltic fleet
G1
-AC purchased to Baltic, 2figs land there
-Med fleet move to merge with baltic fleet in sz7, it has 1bb 1trans 1sub
-Figs try to destroy soviet sub
-Bomber + 1fig help to take out anglo-egypt so 1inf 1arm 1fig 1bomb.
-Is the UK destroyer in med taken out with planes? And what planes? If 1fig is used in anglo-egypt, you can only attack it with 1fig, not so good odds. If 2figs used, you would take a high gamble in anglo-egypt, with 1inf 1arm 1bomb.

Egypt would look really bad, but anyway my point was how to counter the merging of those fleets.

UK1
-AC purchased, 1fig to land on AC purchased, 4ipc saved or 1art purchased.
-UK fleet form up in sz7, 1transport moves to replace soviet sub if it’s destroyed by the Germans
-UK indian fleet move to med if the route is open, or optional they open the route by attacking anglo-egypt with 3inf 1fig.
-UK airforce 2figs, 1bomber attack the German med fleet, 2 rounds of combat is enough, to destroy the transport and sub, after that  consolidate your bomber and with luck 1fighter back to england.

USA this is really optional, either buy something to try hold the Japan steamhorse or full KGF tactic. I will go with full KGF.

USA1
-Buy 1fig, 2trans, 1dest, 1art
-Attack the med fleet on the coast of algeria, 2trans, 1dest, 1bomb. Because the british have already destroyed at minimum 1sub/1trans or both of them. The lonely BB is easy prey. If there is only the BB, take 1inf with you to take algeria. After this attack the med fleet should be totally wasted, freeing africa for UK, and keeping the fleets from merging.
-Bomber moves to UK and 1fig is placed on UK AC, so on sz7 there will be 1-2trans, 1BB, 1AC + 2figs(UK&USA figs)
-USA Hawaii fighter moves to russia, West Coast fighter moves to East Coast or Alaska, where it will fly to russia.
-All Purchases to East Coast, leave Japan to ramble on it’s own, it will take a long time before it can do anything really bad, USA could   start moving it’s 1trans, 1BB to Atlantic sea, and panama destroyer is moved to Eastern coast

S2 I won’t do any land battle moves

G2 Now this is really hard for germans, what should they do. They have the option to waste british fleet, but with great loss of AF. Well what here has always been done, you sacrifice your planes heedlessly.

-1 fig is used to destroy the UK trans or soviet sub if it really survived G1
-2 Subs 4figs 1bomb attack the UK fleet. (1fig can’t move from Libya to sz7)

7hit attack force against 6hit UK fleet. Germans will waste this fleet on round 1, but the fighters survive or if the germans continue to round to destroy everything then most likely germany will be after this battle lost 2subs 2-3figs. The loss of this navy isn’t so bad to UK.

-Baltic fleet moves to sz7?? Or I don’t think so, what is the point anymore when the med fleet have been wasted by the allies.

UK2
-Buy AC, 1trans, 2inf placed to sz8, where USA fleet merges with this new UK fleet
-Bomber maybe SBR or moved to Russia to slow down Japan juggernaut, it can always come back from there to help take out the rest of German fleet when the time comes.

USA2
-East Coast should have 2figs now if the West coast fig moved there, this figs move to UK carrier and all surviviving USA Navy consolidate on sz8, where plans for D-Day can begin.
-BB and trans moved to East coast
-Buy 2trans 2inf 2arm, 8ipc save or 1sub

What do you think of this? I have always thought the merging of med fleet and baltic is fools job, it the Allies know what they are doing. Egypt is in firm control of allies, because of India fleet and troops moving there, with those inf and 1fig they can take africa to UK, to replace loss of India to Japan. Germans have lost a lot of planes in taking out UK fleet, weakening their power greatly and the soviet front looks very good for allies who have after turn 2. 1UK trans and 2USA trans ready to sail where they want them, most likely to Norway where they will disrupt the german armies marching towards moscow. 1BB 2trans 1sub is ready to sail from east coast to threaten the Baltic fleet and 3-4 figs + 1-2 bombers will be the Force that takes it down and the Germans don’t have much choice in that.

I can explain this hand to hand if you don’t understand, but you should from this long post. Do you play with national advantages? We always play with 1random advantage, only rule that we have changed is that USA don’t get Super Bombers, if USA player rolls number 6, he can choose the advantage from the last 5.

[88 Millimeter]

Back to Switch’s reply about the Ukraine…

Leave Belorussia, take 8 Inf, Art, 2 Arm into W Russia, 3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm, 2 Ftr into Ukraine. By the odds you then have 5 Inf and hardware left in W Russia, and you should take the Ukraine with an Arm left. The purchase is 3 Inf, 3 Arm. Net results- Russia collects 29 IPCs (not too shabby), Germany cannot realistically counter W Russia, Caucasus, or stack troops in the Ukraine. But in my opinion the biggest prize is the German Fighter. 5 Ftrs limits Germany’s versatility on G1. Plus the German hardware in the Ukraine can no longer be used elsewhere.

Non combat 2 Inf to Sinkiang, 2 Inf to Caucasus, 2 Inf to Russia, 6 Inf to Buryatia. Sub joins BB and Trans. Fighters to Caucasus (or Kazahk for retribution in China on R2, if Japan is thin). Place 3 Inf, Arm in Caucasus, 2 Arm in Russia. You now have the capability on R2 to also strafe Karelia or the Ukraine if Germany doesn’t place properly. The assertion that Russia doesn’t have enough Armor is not true with this purchase.

R2 purchase 8 Inf, Arm and enjoy. For several rounds you’ll produce more than 24 IPCs of Russian units- guaranteed if a Carrier was purchased. Prepare for the Russian Bear.

More importantly, in this particular conversation, Germany’s options are a bit less limited. One less Fighter is a big deal in the land and naval battles. If I see a German carrier on G1, I also realize that I now have the initiative on the front vs. Germany. 2 Transports on G1 is different, because it means on G2 6 Inf will show up on the scene in Karelia.

Oh, and I’ll continue to hold fast to in a non-bid situation the absolute necessity of taking out Egypt using the Battleship and Transport. Going into the Ukraine with them would make the British player very, very confident.

I’ve played more than a few games, and if as a German I still hold the Ukraine on G1 I’m a happy monkey. The same holds true with being British and holding Egypt and its Ftr on UK1.

Play test R1 just as I wrote it up and get back to me.

[Thamor]

I would rather strafe ukraine, that 3ipc more and lose 3inf 1art 2armor isn’t so big tradeoff, even when you can get 1 German fighter, it isn’t so big a loss as you think. And only having 2fighters for Russia is weak :/, you need fighters to trade off with germans with only infranty.

Strafe = Hit ukraine with 3inf 1art 2arm 2fighters, on round 1 you should inflict 3-5 hits. So you leave behind usually for germans 1art 1arm 1fighter, but you save 2arm 1art and maybe 1inf. That ukraine plane i usually take to Egypt, but if it is destroyed, 2inf 2arm 1bomb is enough to take it down close the canal. I don’t take chances with UK destroyer 1bb 1tran 1fig I use to take it down, so it sinks on round 1, very bad luck if goes to round 2 and the destroyer manages to hit, round 2 it always sinks and with very bad luck one german AF blown to pieces, but rather plane than my bb. I have lost sometimes when I attack only with bb and trans, that I lose the battle, don’t ever again want that to happen :/

[Guest]

Um guys… one thing as you rage back and forth over UK landing forces in the north free-and-clear becaue the Germans are heading for SZ7…

That move assumes that UK is building it’s fleet somewhere SAFE, like SZ2.

The point of GOING to SZ7 AND of linking the fleets is to allow Germany to either A) defend against allied navy/AF attacking the German navy or B) to be able to put that UK navy that has been building AT RISK.

If the Brits sail their fleet to within reach of me on UK1, guess what?  I am NOT going to bother linking the fleets… I am just going to take out the UK fleet with 2 subs, 1 TRN, 1 DST, 1 AC, and as many figs as I feel like using, plus a bomber.  I leave the med fleet in the med to shuttle forces into Africa AND to strike any US trannies that approach Africa unguarded or lightly guarded.

It is not a “set in stone” strategy.  It is used to counter a “safe” allied naval build up and force the allies hand on their intial naval build up.

But again, if UK negates the need for such a shift to threaten, then just attack them and be done with it.

sheez…

[Thamor]

Hehe, you are right, of course after that you would do it, but the tradeoff for germans to sacrifice their fleet so they take UK fleet isn’t so great, because UK just jumps straight back at you really fast and USA will protect their transports with their navy.

Ncscswitch, if you read carefully my post. You could see that if you moved your med fleet to sz12, it would be wasted by UK and USA. And you could only attack the UK fleet with 2 subs and planes. Why Submarines because sub/transport don’t block them from moving through the sz6.

Read my post, I want you to attack the UK navy, because I want to take a lot of German AF with me to the bottom.

[Guest]

All I ahve to do with that navy is hold you off for 3 rounds.  That’s all, just 3 rounds.

And if I can remove enough of your capital ships so that you are transport heavy and capital ship light, I can still take out that navy one more time in an AF sack to shut you down for one final round, as I make my last press for Russia.

You have to replace the capital ships.  That is not cheap, takes a round of build.  Then another round of build to get trannies.  Then a round to fill them…

Kill the initial fleet, and I get my 3 rounds.  Make you work around my intial lfeet and take yours out piecemeal, and I get my 3 rounds.

[wilkinson1974]

Even if the Brit fleet moves within striking distance of the Baltic fleet in round 1, the Germans shouldn’t be able to hit it with anything except planes(in round2) if the Russians seal off the Baltic with their sub.  This will allow the UK to place another AC and a trannie with the fleet in round 2(with the americans dropping planes on it).  The Brits would have 2AC, at least 3 planes, 3trannies, and a battleship against the german AC, 4 fighters, a bomber, 2 subs, a destroyer, and a trannie.  With just 3 allied planes in the mix, it is a 40-60 LOSS for the Germans if they attack.  The odds are worse if the Americans find a way to get 2 planes on the carrier at the end of round 2.

Wilk

@ncscswitch:

Um guys… one thing as you rage back and forth over UK landing forces in the north free-and-clear becaue the Germans are heading for SZ7…

That move assumes that UK is building it’s fleet somewhere SAFE, like SZ2.

The point of GOING to SZ7 AND of linking the fleets is to allow Germany to either A) defend against allied navy/AF attacking the German navy or B) to be able to put that UK navy that has been building AT RISK.

If the Brits sail their fleet to within reach of me on UK1, guess what?   I am NOT going to bother linking the fleets… I am just going to take out the UK fleet with 2 subs, 1 TRN, 1 DST, 1 AC, and as many figs as I feel like using, plus a bomber.  I leave the med fleet in the med to shuttle forces into Africa AND to strike any US trannies that approach Africa unguarded or lightly guarded.

It is not a “set in stone” strategy.  It is used to counter a “safe” allied naval build up and force the allies hand on their intial naval build up.

But again, if UK negates the need for such a shift to threaten, then just attack them and be done with it.

sheez…