:D :-? :( :x :evil:
I think alternate is the way to go. Traditional may be more accurate (duh) but alternate forces you to make new strategies, so…
Like the topic brother; you already know how I voted. Most of the votes have been for traditional, however. Not to toot our own horn, but most of the players on this forum could never hang with our skills. They’re used to playing the same setup over and over, and wouldn’t know how to operate outside the historical WW2 box. Oh well, more power to us. Because we play outside the box we have a strategic and technical advantage over most other players. We can play any side, any allies, and any part of the map two ways from Tuesday. Fduck it!! Here’s a toot to our superior gaming style!! 8)
No offense to any of the other players on this forum, and yes, in the end, it all comes down to who has the better rolls in the crucial battles. :evil:
–and I’m out
Well, in fact I only played the Standard Setup, but not because of my narrowminded view - I just don’t know where to get an alternate setup. Do you just mean to change the setup yourself; I think I could never balance things out. Or is there any “fair” alternate setup on the internet? Are you maybe talking about this Kremlin thing, I think there are some things different.
Something close to the topic: http://axisandallies.metalsaber.com/
I really love this guy. He draws his own maps and changes some rules to fit into his scenerios. Nevertheless I have to admit that I could never play one of these scenerios myself, because none of my friends wants to. Especially the Balkan and Cuba scenerios look great and like lots of fun.
When we say alternate, we mean starting the game with different allies:
Most recently we tried Germany and Russia vs. USA/Japan/UK. I got Russia and AgentO got Japan, so we started out as enemies. The trifecta owned the seas, and it was real ugly for Germany; they couldn’t leave the Med in fear of being crushed. It sucked for me as well, because AgentO got Bonzais for one of his NA’s, and I got non-aggression treaty, so I couldn’t (wouldn’t) attack him because I actually wanted to use my advantage, which was no advantage, really. Not a one of my free INF actually hit :roll:. We were strong in the Middle east, and were able to power our way into India on the ground, but they owned the high seas. Plus, AgentO just started stacking INF in Manchuria and China, which scared the living crap out of me. Needless to say, Germany went out first, seeing as almost all of their empire is accessible by water (barring West Russia and Belarus). Britain rushed in thru the Baltic and took Berlin, Germany took it back, and Britain took it for good (with two rounds of Nazi IPC’s in their hand). After this, I was in flagrant defiance of the remaining players, vowing that they would never take Moscow, and spewing all kinds of nasty things. By myself, I would have easily been crushed in 2 or 3 turns (if that), so I petitioned the group for a new ally in order to perpetuate the game and keep me in it. We took a vote and decided that the UK would join my side against Japan and Russia. There were several factors that went into this: does each side have an approximately equal IPC capacity? What techs does each side have? How about just pure military power already on the board? We try to balance these things out and make it as even as possible. The primary motivating factor for us was the fact that AgentO and I were in huge standoff in the east. We had just been stacking units along our borders trying to scare the other side into packing up and going home (non-aggression treaty was still in full effect). Together, we had more units in the east than anyone else anywhere on the board. The group decided we shouldn’t be allied because our combined military might was just too great. We (I) also knew Russia would never stand up to a Japan/UK duo, so we settled on the UK and Russia vs. USA/Japan. We also ran into a problem because there were still German Naval and Air units on the board. We use a house rule to rectify these kinds of problems:
If a power is defeated (capital’s taken), and there are units remaining on the board belonging to the vanquished power, then those units are to be conscripted by that power’s former ally(ies).
Also,
Allies may be changed only immediately after a capital/power has fallen (for good).
In the case of the above mentioned game, I as Russia was now equipped with a sizeable Air Force, and a decently sized Navy. Yes, folks, I have in fact seen a Russian Battleship (with a Navy to boot!), and believe you me it was a beautiful sight :wink:! Much thanks to the Nazi high command 8).
You may also run into some other problems, but first I must tell you of what conspired in the East between AgentO and I, and let me relish in my ultimate victory over Japanese aggression. Don’t hate me, O, because I’m beautiful :lol:.
AgentO sent everything he had at me in the east. In Buratytia (spelling?), he sent his 12 Bonzai INF at my 5 INF, 3 ARM, and 1 FTR defending. Seriously, I thought it was all over. But after about probably 10 rounds of combat, there was no one left standing, and my boys had successfully defended their homeland. I think my FTR hit everytime. AgentO didn’t do so well in China either, and after that turn, Japan was no longer a threat on land in Asia. Effectively defeated on the mainland, he resigned to building a massive Navy to protect the island. Who’s the man? 8)
UK and I eventually took Washington. We effectively split up the German empire, and I started running attacks on the US out of the Southern European IC and the Med while Britain took Berlin and France. I was really in no position to take Washington, though my brilliant (and successful) attack on Western Canada was the beginning of the end for the US. Britain took Washington, US took it back, and UK took it for good. As you can probably tell by now, the UK did all the dirty work in this game. Sensing the growing power of the Britons, and realizing he had more techs than either Japan or myself, as well as a hoarde of IPC’s (two capitals–twice!), I took the opportunity offered by the downfall of America, and turned on the UK. AgentO (who had just watched his ally be destroyed) was, of course, quite amenable to the idea, and we formed a deadly alliance. Problem was, I had a tank in Africa sitting on British land. So how many spaces could I blitz? One or two (see “need some input” thread)? We decided:
If allies change, and there are now hostile (formerly friendly) units on formerly allied land, one move point is used in taking the territory.
So this means INF would use their move claiming the land they were already on (meaning they can’t move that turn), and tanks could only blitz one additional space. There were also territories where both British and Russian units had been in together. This initiates “instant combat” on the next combat cycle, unless the power whose turn it is decides to pull out of said zone into a friendly territory. This is an adaptation of the similar rule already in the rulebook which states the attacking power has the option to pull out on his combat move and avoid confrontation. It says this usually only applies to sea units, but it seems quite logical to apply it in these sorts of instances as well. After all, that is the meaning of the word “usually”.
We also ran into another problem: Can an allied Navy run an Amphibious Assault with friendly units? Your first gut reaction is no, because allies can’t attack together, but the rule actually means allies can’t roll attack dice together on the same combat cycle. They can only roll together when they defend together. Allies can attack the same territory on their own turn right? So, taken to its logical end, it would work like this:
Friendly ground units load up on their turn (combat cycle). Allied navy (on their own turn) moves and then conducts shore bombardment. On friendlies’ next turn, land units unload and conduct land combat.
This would all happen over a couple rounds, but it’s completely legal if you think about it. The allies are rolling attack dice on their own turn . No one is attacking together. There are land units in those transports, so the shore bombard is allowed, assuming there’s no defending sea units. Still, this means those land units are exposed to attack in their transports because they have to wait until their own turn to offload, and enemy powers will have their own chance to attack said fleet when it’s their turn.
All in all, alternate setups make you a better player because:
You must learn every aspect of the game, and are forced to read into the rules where they don’t reach.
The map is your friend. You must constanly stay on top of territories changing hands and altering IPC earnings. (There are 166 total IPC’s available on the map, which is something you might not have known before, but we do.)
You have to think outside the box. You need new strategies to achieve different kinds of results with different kinds of allies. There are all kinds of strategies to play traditional A&AR, and you can read all about them in all sorts of threads slathered all over this forum. But do you have the right kind of strategy to defeat America with a combined Russian/British force? I think not. And you won’t find it anywhere on this site, all due respect to the Mods for the opportunity to talk nerd :D.
Finally, if you can play alternate, then you can play traditional, but not necessarily vice versa. I consider myself a student of the game, not just a player.
But, alas, I must finish now because a whole portion of my waking life has just gone down the tubes, and I’m kind of starting to regret babbling on for so long. Hopefully, you guys can see where I’m coming from, and maybe I’ve even won over a few people. Fight on, brave souls!! (That’s nerd talk for: your not losing, you just had some bad rolls :wink:.) :)
This is also true: You can start out playing Traditional, but when someone goes out, switch up the teams then. WWII wasn’t that long ago (OK, maybe it was) but bear with me. Maybe Russia was one of the allies during the war, but that was only because they shared a common enemy with the Brits. When that enemy (Germany) fell, what happened next? Germany was split in half, the Wall went up, and suddenly relations with the ol’ Russkies weren’t all that good. True, the Cold War wasn’t a conventional war by any means, but even so, Germany wasn’t re-united until almost 45 years later. It just goes to show that, historically, whenever a war is “resolved”, the survivors will inevitably duke it out amongst themselves… :roll:
Oh, and Justus: You forgot to mention that at one point, you were trying to take Berlin, but your forces were diminished by the fact that Britain still owned an AA gun in Western Europe. Ended up taking it anyway, but such was the luck o’ the dice… 8)
Yea,
All (land) units must stop in the first territory where they encounter enemy units, even an AA or an IC. Since my units were already on Western Europe when it became a hostile territory, they weren’t allowed to move. They obviously claimed right away because they were no British forces, but no movement was possible. I had to take Berlin from the Brits with only the units I had mobilized in Southern Europe on the previous turn (3 INF, 2 ARM, 1 ARTY) against their 2 ARM and 2 INF. Took it with 1 ARM standing! 8) Got crushed in the New World though. It was all Britain after they took Washington, except for those pesky Japs in Alaska and Western Canada :wink:. Brazil will be mine.
alternative. traditional set ups make me want to vomit with rage. nazis in mexico, japs in africa. no eastern europe line but a giant battle ground in india/china. comm’on. DP nightmare
