Gun Control

[Guest]

and i say, they should be taken from irresponsible people…. thus nearly everyone :)

[Guerrilla Guy]

@F_alk:

and i say, they should be taken from irresponsible people…. thus nearly everyone :)

People are not that irresponsible!

[Darrigaaz]

@F_alk:

if drug control doesn’t work, why waste ressources on that???
that would follow that argument, and is the reason why i called it flawed.

Did i say that? did i even imply that? NO

CC, i dont see how control of the two is different.

Guns would be just as easy to smuggle in as anything else, drugs, people, you name it.
Yes perhaps fewer bad guys would have guns, but the good guys would be getting screwed over and having our rights taken away from us. People who leave their guns lying around and a kid kills themselves? Charge the parents with manslaughter for being so careless. You may as well leave nitroglycerin hanging around. Guns are bangerous in the hands of those who dont know how to use them or those who dont respect them. Nearly any tool is; hammers, saws, drills. Because thats what a firearm is: a tool.

Any adolecent who fools around with a gun and kills himself or a friend, grew up not respecting the gun. Parents actually need to get off their asses and make sure their kids understand the responsibility involved when firearms are present. Growing up in a hunting family, i have always respected the rifles and shotguns my father owns. I have never been tempted to go and look at them, or to show them off to my friends.

[Guerrilla Guy]

agreed Darigaaz… I don’t think anyone would argue… Both my Grandfather and My Uncle hunts and I always think of gun safety now when we go to a range and would do even away from one…

[Darrigaaz]

Why thank you GG, its great to get some support on the subject. :)

[cystic crypt]

I’ll argue it . . . .

@Darrigaaz:

CC, i dont see how control of the two is different.

Guns would be just as easy to smuggle in as anything else, drugs, people, you name it.

so??? At least smuggling involves relatively smaller numbers of weapons. Plus there is a chance of these being prevented from making it to the public. This in my mind would reduce the proliferation of guns far greater than simply selling them at the local K-Mart. Also greater weapons control ould be applied at the other end. Tighten up weapons offenses related sentances, increased confiscation of unaccounted for firearms, etc. Just because the drug war isn’t working perfectly, doesn’t mean that it isn’t working.

Yes perhaps fewer bad guys would have guns, but the good guys would be getting screwed over and having our rights taken away from us.

ahhh yes. The right to own killing devices? Give me a break. All that the proliferation of guns does is enhance fear and paranoia. I’m thinking that a society with fewer guns would have a lot less fear, particularly if the owning of a gun results in marginalization. Or is this another “gov’t vs. us” thing that characterizes some of you guys so well?

People who leave their guns lying around and a kid kills themselves? Charge the parents with manslaughter for being so careless. You may as well leave nitroglycerin hanging around. Guns are bangerous in the hands of those who dont know how to use them or those who dont respect them. Nearly any tool is; hammers, saws, drills. Because thats what a firearm is: a tool.

yeah it’s a tool. A killing people tool. Except it does it sooo much more effectively and from much greater distance than the hammer, saw, drill tool that you mention.
As for your first two sentances - what planet are you from? Since when is more slaughtered people and more people in jails preferable to a society with fewer slaughtering devices? Your priorities in this regard are completely whacked.

Any adolecent who fools around with a gun and kills himself or a friend, grew up not respecting the gun.

he also had access to a gun that killed his (adolescent) friend. The years of life lost in this regard are astounding. The “gee, that’s too bad, if only he had learned gun control” attitude is ridiculous when it would be much easier to restrict firearms from these adolescents.

Parents actually need to get off their asses and make sure their kids understand the responsibility involved when firearms are present.

well, i agree with this. Parents in our societies today have to get off of their asses in general. But as this shows an increasing chance of not happening, then we as a society have to protect these children.

Growing up in a hunting family, i have always respected the rifles and shotguns my father owns. I have never been tempted to go and look at them, or to show them off to my friends.

i don’t really have a problem with this, but i am all about keeping all killing machines outside of the city.

[Darrigaaz]

@cystic:

I’ll argue it . . . .

This in my mind would reduce the proliferation of guns far greater than simply selling them at the local K-Mart.

Who buys guns at K-mart, they rip you off and their arms are usually of a poor quality.

Just because the drug war isn’t working perfectly, doesn’t mean that it isn’t working.

Its not working at all. Its like killing a mosquito only to have ten thousand others swarm you.

ahhh yes. The right to own killing devices?

“The Right To Bear Arms”

All that the proliferation of guns does is enhance fear and paranoia.

Without this sounding like a personal attack, these really sound like symptoms your exhibiting. You seem Very sure that firearms are evil tools of satanic death delivering. :)

Or is this another “gov’t vs. us” thing that characterizes some of you guys so well?

Please, you do not know me, so i would greatly appreciate it if you didn’t classify my beliefs as making me something out of “Deliverance”

yeah it’s a tool. A killing people tool. Except it does it sooo much more effectively and from much greater distance than the hammer, saw, drill tool that you mention.

Another Killing tool? the car. Parents shouldnt leave the keys in the car and door open so their seven year old can go for a joyride. its not safe. They shouldnt let kids play on the highway either.

As for your first two sentances - what planet are you from?

Earth

Since when is more slaughtered people and more people in jails preferable to a society with fewer slaughtering devices? Your priorities in this regard are completely whacked.

Its called responsibility. Parents are responsible for feeding, clothing, and sheltering their children. If they fail at this they are charged for criminal neglect or whatever (cant think of the actual crimes name)
P.S. saying my opinions are ‘whacked’ seems on par with saying to me ‘your an idiot’, it has no impact at all on this conversation other than being rude.

he also had access to a gun that killed his (adolescent) friend. The years of life lost in this regard are astounding. The “gee, that’s too bad, if only he had learned gun control” attitude is ridiculous when it would be much easier to restrict firearms from these adolescents.

Well i have access to my parents car and liquor cabinet. doesnt mean im driving down the road drunk and hollering “Hoo-Rah!” I have access to two sticks, that doesnt mean i go around lighting my neighbors houses on fire.

i don’t really have a problem with this, but i am all about keeping all killing machines outside of the city.

Another point to keep in mind: with over 200 million firearms in the country, who do you think are going to be the only ones who dont hand them in when uncle sam comes calling?

As the saying goes, when you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

Check this Statistic: twice as many inner city children are killed by knives than firearms. What should we outlaw butter knives?

Bartely Fox Act institutes a one year manditory prison sentence for anyone carrying an unliscenced firearm. With all the gang-bangers in the city of boston arrested, many of them have existing unlescenced firearm violations. If so, why are they on the streets? We need no more controling laws, we just need to enforce the ones already out there.

[Guerrilla Guy]

well put Darigaaz :D

[Darrigaaz]

Why thank you good sir. :D :D

[Guerrilla Guy]

one point CC… the right to keep and bear killing machines? have you ever thought that the car you drive can kill someone? a gun is no different it’s just perticularly meant to kill or disable….

[Darrigaaz]

…or procure food.

GG, Have you ever had deer heart?

[Guerrilla Guy]

no but I have had Venison… how does it taste :) ?

[Janus1]

hold the phone, does K-mart even sell guns? The one by me does not. does it in other places? Thats ridiculous, imo.

People have the right to bear arms. They should have the PRIVILEGE to bear arms. that is, a right that comes with responsibility. rather than simply declaring citizens have the right to bear arms, as though it were a basic right on par with freedom of religion and speech (in the examples i am semi-playing the devils advocate, but its irrelevent), because it is not. its not a right, its a privilege. as long as you own and operate your gun responsibly and safely you may own it. this would include

1. proper storage (i.e. unloaded)
2. proper safety training in the use of the gun for you and anyone else who lives there
3. proper use of gun (i.e. no holding up banks, etc)

if people follow these (and perhaps other) guidelines, i personally see no reason to prohibit them from owning a gun. like darrigaaz said, any child who shows off his dad’s gun to a friend, and winds up killing that friend did not learn proper gun safety, nor did the parents. you dont leave a loaded gun lying around, and even if it was unloaded and the child loaded it, you dont leave a child thats going to do that. you educate your damn kid about the gun, so he doesnt do that.

the owner of the gun should be charged with manslaughter in that case if it occurred.

adolescents of course, should not be allowed to own a gun, and perhaps not even operate one (i could go either way on this one). you should be an adult, with the proper education on the matter, and no criminal record, or history of mental illness.

back to kmart….
kmart should not be allowed to sell guns.
aside from just seeming so basically wrong, it sends the wrong message, it makes them seem as if any other item. which they are not. they are instruments of death. this is not an item to be taken so lightly as to sell it in kmart. it should be sold in gun-specific stores, by properly liscensed dealers, to properly liscensed consumers, and every gun in the place should be in police records, with barrel groove prints (whatever you call those) and perhaps even tracers (again, i could go either way on this)

the problem is not that people have guns, its that they have the wrong attitude. too many people with guns dont respect what it is, and should not own a gun, and too many people who dont own guns also do not respect what it is, and demonize it to the point of ludicracy.

[Guerrilla Guy]

The Right to bear Arms was established so that if the USA was invaded, it would have a overly capable Guerrilla defense force…

[Janus1]

quite frankly, i dont care. it should not be a RIGHT, but instead a PRIVILEGE.

[DeviantScripter]

@F_alk:

@Darrigaaz:

…However, this will be like the prohibition: people WILL find a way. As an American, i know from experience that we are a hard bunch to lick (i hate that expression). They’re trying to control drugs, arent they? not going to well, if i say so myself.

I think this argument is flawed.
Drugs harm yourself, weapons harm others. Still you propose to keep weapons free, and pull the “failed” “drug control” as a reason for that. Wouldn’t that imply that you support free drugs for everyone then as well?
For me, it does, even though you probably don’t want that.

You idiot. Drugs aren’t protected by the constitution, the right to bear arms is. :roll:

[Guest]

@Deviant:Scripter:

You idiot. Drugs aren’t protected by the constitution, the right to bear arms is. :roll:

You idiot. Not by mine. … anyone out there to dare calling me stereotyping when i get these great examples all the time?

@Darrigaaz:

@F_alk:

if drug control doesn’t work, why waste ressources on that???
that would follow that argument, and is the reason why i called it flawed.

Did i say that? did i even imply that? NO

Read again …. i just mentioned the next step that your argument leads to. I never said you implied that or anything. And you yourself said that drug control didn’t work at all. (“Its not working at all. Its like killing a mosquito only to have ten thousand others swarm you.”)
On the other hand, you are so frightened that gun control would take away your prescious tool for killing. Why? If the one doesn’t work, why should the other? I don’t see why you are afraid of (and against) one, by the basis of a not-working other one. That makes no sense.

“The Right To Bear Arms”

Then you don’t mind people owning tanks, jet fighters etc. ?

You seem Very sure that firearms are evil tools of satanic death delivering. :)

Leave out the evil and satanic and then you have it. I have never heard that guns have another purpose than delivering death. Maybe scaring, but only because of the threatening the first thing.

Another Killing tool? the car.

Whereas cars have a different purpose. They are actually designed for bringing you from one place to another. Guns are designed for killing (except for some sporting rifles).
And: to use a car you have to do a license.

Another point to keep in mind: with over 200 million firearms in the country, who do you think are going to be the only ones who dont hand them in when uncle sam comes calling?

Surely none of his (CC’s) fellow citizens. Surely none of mine. And it is less than 200 million in the country. That would be more than 2 rifles per person (of any age).
sigh
it is not much work to change “the” to “my”.

Check this Statistic: twice as many inner city children are killed by knives than firearms. What should we outlaw butter knives?

stupid comparison (to the “butter knife”), second, read what CC had posted earlier on the difference of wounds caused by knifes and guns.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Jet Fighters, WHY NOT! :lol: My brother and I were talking about this one time, if our goverment in the form it is didn’t exsist… the problem is that the Goverment (purticularly the White House) controls all foriegn wars… not everyone wants them… and that is how the prez gets booted… we originally were designed as a country to not get involved in foreign conflict but to remain nuetral, but open to any Foreign Trade… then if that was the “mindset”, we had created then I see no reason why not to! As we progressed into foreign wars and Imperialism, everyone depended on the Military at the time… I see why not you could depend on yourself and 30 Million able-bodied men(and women) to go get rid of a threat… That does not mean we wouldn’t have Jet Fighters Technology isn’t depended on Goverments…

GG

[Darrigaaz]

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

@Darrigaaz:

…However, this will be like the prohibition: people WILL find a way. As an American, i know from experience that we are a hard bunch to lick (i hate that expression). They’re trying to control drugs, arent they? not going to well, if i say so myself.

I think this argument is flawed.
Drugs harm yourself, weapons harm others. Still you propose to keep weapons free, and pull the “failed” “drug control” as a reason for that. Wouldn’t that imply that you support free drugs for everyone then as well?
For me, it does, even though you probably don’t want that.

You idiot. Drugs aren’t protected by the constitution, the right to bear arms is. :roll:

DS, while i agree with you, please keep it civilized, this is a very fun topic to discuss and i do not want it to deteriorate into just blasting eachothers opinions.

Janus, this is my stance. It (in modern day no longer coloial sociiety) is a right to have a chance of owning a gun. but if you screw it up, “no gun for you”!

Kmart. When i say Kmart sells guns i mean they have this cabinet over their pocket knife display containing paintballstuff, bb guns, and then three or four rifles and shotguns. I agree, if anything, Kmart should sell maps containing locations of firearms specialty stores; not the arms themselves.

When you say tracers do you mean like GPS locators built into your guns? if you do, i would dissgree with that. the barrel groove print things is a good idea, and may people in government are working toawrds this.

[Darrigaaz]

@F_alk:

And you yourself said that drug control didn’t work at all. (“Its not working at all. Its like killing a mosquito only to have ten thousand others swarm you.”)
On the other hand, you are so frightened that gun control would take away your prescious tool for killing. Why? If the one doesn’t work, why should the other?

because im not some criminal drug dealer who evades the law. if a law like this was ever passed, i’d be very pissed at the democrats but i would kindly oblige; then i would work to get it repealed.

That makes no sense.

makes plenty of sense.

Then you don’t mind people owning tanks, jet fighters etc. ?

People do own tanks! have you seen how big some of those SUV’s are? :lol: :lol: Owning a Jet fighter is like owning an AK-47; people do it sometimes, but the government keeps a close eye on them. There are alot of private collectors out there, which brings me to you next point.

I have never heard that guns have another purpose than delivering death.

Collectors; guns are usually MORE valuable if nver fired. LouisXVI had a pistol that had about 3/4 of a pound of jewels on it, making it more of a trophy that “A SATANIC DEATH DELIVERING BEAST FROM HELL”. Many people go to rifle ranges as a source of fun. Yes, fun, or unmandated extracuricular activities.

Whereas cars have a different purpose. They are actually designed for bringing you from one place to another…. EVEN WORSE THAT WE STILL HAVE THESE MECHANIZED DEATH BOXES ON THE ROAD! WHY STILL USE THESE DESTRUCTIVE AND UNCONTROLLABLE FORCES IF THEY KILL SCORES OF INNOCENT PEOPLE A DAY!

And: to use a car you have to do a license.

to use a gun, you do have to have a license. :P

Another point to keep in mind: with over 200 million firearms in the country, who do you think are going to be the only ones who dont hand them in when uncle sam comes calling?

Surely none of his (CC’s) fellow citizens. Surely none of mine. And it is less than 200 million in the country. That would be more than 2 rifles per person (of any age).

dont be so sure, unless you have scoured everyone of your neighbors houses, you cannot know for sure.
sigh
and yes, OVER 200 million. Most hunters own more than one rifle depending on the game and terrain they’re hunting in. Most police stations have mnay more firearms than the officers assigned there. most collectors have insane amounts of firearms. that figure is most definately correct.

Check this Statistic: twice as many inner city children are killed by knives than firearms. What should we outlaw butter knives?

stupid comparison (to the “butter knife”), second, read what CC had posted earlier on the difference of wounds caused by knifes and guns.
Please, you anti gun people seem to enjoy using terms like “stupid” and “whacked”. They really do nothing than to send the impression that your not thinking rationally. i will check the above post of CC’s, but i cant find it :roll: