Instead of bidding try this in your game

[waraxis]

Restrict the UK and the US on the first turn as well instead of giving the Axis a bid. What you guys think??

If all three allies can’t attack on the first turn then maybe that could give the axis a edge with out a bid??

[MistaBiggs]

Seems to me that if all the Allies were restricted … then, Asia would be almost given to Japan. All Japan would have to do is take India on turn 1 and then China on turn 2 … thus, UK would be eliminated from Asia and the US would be powerless as well. Then, it’s just a matter of pushing back Russia. The entire UK fleet would be demolished (probably the Russia fleet – all 2 of them), and Africa would be over ran by the Germans. The Allies would have a lot of work cut out for them and that’s not even counting any added units (via bidding).

Have you ever tried this out? … how does it play out? Am I completely wrong?

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

I agree with MB, seems to give Axis too much of an edge…however, it seems when I play as Axis, I usually win, even without RR or bids…maybe the Allied players just suck-less likely, I’m just that brilliant of a tactician. :D

Or maybe it’s my psychological warfare of taking half an hour to decide what to do with my ally. :wink:

[M-4_Sherman]

MB is right, the germans would take africa/ be able to push at Russia. and with the japanese troops banging away at the other side, Russia would be powerless. thus knocking out the most important member of the allied team far too quickly to have a decent game.

[Guest]

I am of the contrary opinion to my esteemed colleagues…I think it is not a bad idea in lieu of RR games small bid games.

More often than not, the US does no attacks on US 1 anyway. Admittedly you restrict their ability to counter-Pearl but that does not happen the majority of games. Other than that, there is not much they attack most of the time.

The UK is interesting…in 2nd edition 1 hit BB games the major problem is being able to hit AES and withstand the counter against AES on G1/UK1. The bid is almost always used to give Germany a headstart in Africa. Sometimes UK gets to mop up German u-boats, take out the Med fleet, strat bomb Germany, or hit F/N.

This option might indeed be viable by allowing a reasonable Afrika Corps to be established.

There’s no need to panic over India…you still can have 3 Inf, 1 Ftr and a tranny to block. Plus Russians to counter if you want. Of course, I’d personally send the tranny to Australia, the India forces to Sinkiang, and the Syria Inf to Persia. Land your 2 UK Ftrs/Bomber in Russia. Gives you 3 Ftrs, 1 bomber, 3 Inf to counter India…plus the possibility to bring 2 more from Australia…if tranny survives…and even if not, Pearl is riskier for Japan. Remember, you move before Japan so there is no need to get wasted in India. Assuming Russia builds the Yakut wall…you have 2 US, 3 UK, possibly 5 UK, + the Russkies + the UK air to retreat to Novo. This is plenty and is what typically happens in 3rd Edition Russia NOT Restricted games with a large bid in Africa. Indeed, a large number of those games see the UK evac India to Sinkiang on UK 1…no different in this setup.

Could work…I’ll try it out sometime.

[TG Moses VI]

I would agree on waraxis on this one… this does give the Axis an advantage, but not so large as some have made it out to be. Like the previous Guest point out, USA really doesn’t do anything its first turn. It could counterattack at Pearl Harbor, but more likely it’ll shift its troops to the Atlantic.

UK on the otherhand is capable of some “reactive” attacks on T1. Depending on the aggressiveness of the German, it can possibly fly in ftr and use its bmb for some nasty counterattacks against Egypt should the Germans take it or fly in its RAF to attack any surviving German surface ships.

All in all… I would like to see this concept “tested” to say the least. :D

[waraxis]

Thanks for agreeing TG Moses VI, I thought this idea wasn’t that bad for the allies. I hope some people are trying it out.

It was just something different to try instead of bidding.

[TG Moses VI]

Well there are many other ways of semi-historically balancing the game.
I came up with a list of ways to advantage the Axis… though I’m not sure where they are inside of the forum… :(

But one rule I like is turning Spain Axis and placing an IC in W. Europe. In makes Germany suddenly more interesting.

[lnxduk]

I wouldn’t mind trying it. Usa a lot of times does no attacks, and all it would really do to hurt is prevent attacking leftover german fleet units, and egypt It’s an interesting idea anyway

[TG Moses VI]

Here’s a list of rules I came up with instead of bidding

1. America gets no IPC or half IPC for the first round. Even though America had been gearing up for war since 1938, it was nowhere near the level of readiness for what lied ahead
2. Two hit battleships. Battleships could suck up A LOT of damage before being destroyed. You could also use 2 hit carriers though I think that it would benifit the Allies more.
3. Russia Restricted. Since this game takes place in Spring 1942, the dreadful winter climate of Russia is over and the Germans are once again able to resume the offensive. Plus Stalingrad might not even have occured (August 1942 - 2 February 1943), meaning that the Red Army might not be able to stage its massive counterttack.
4. Sub-subs. German subs were among the best in the war and the Japanese had those awesome torpedoes.
5. Rockets and Rockets. Germany gets rockets and better fighters on the third turn to represent breakthroughs in weapons development.
6. Spain Axis. Germany and Spain were very close to getting Spain to enter the war. Simply place 3 inf, 1 tank, 1 fighter in Spain and make it worth 3-6 IPCs.
7. AAE style strat. bombing. The German Luftwaffe delt heavy blows to the American and British bombers in the European Air war.
   Subs. Subs can choose to remain in their sub pens to escape Allied air attacks. Subs are treated if submerged and cannot attack for the turn they wish to be in “dock”

[kyrial]

5. Rockets and Rockets. Germany gets rockets and better fighters on the third turn to represent breakthroughs in weapons development.

Another possible option on this line is to give German tanks the ability to defend at 3 because traditionally German tanks had much better armour and could take hits that would have put US and UK tanks out of the picture. This also spices things up because it gives the Germans the possibility of invading knowing that tanks might make up some of the defensive force afterwards and not just be like INF on the defense.

Just throwing the idea on the table :D

[MistaBiggs]

I agree with this – and in fact, my group plays with this rule in our House Rules:

“Russian tanks – Cost 6 IPC, Attack at 3, and Defend at 3 (the Russian’s had the superior T-34 tank).”

[kyrial]

Yeah, that’s a good move too… I like that because it gives the Russians an incentive to get some tanks up and running as well (they’ll need them for any eventual offensives anyways) and especially to someone who is just learning to play Russia it’s nice to let them go on the attack every now and then (spoilers mostly) and this is an incentive to get the tanks up.

My only worry with any additional rules is to not get to the point where it’s over-specialised. You know, because the game itself is not (and this has been pointed out on the boards) an exact re-creation of WWII. A lot of the fun of the game is the sheer simplicity of the pieces as well as the stragegy in getting the maximum effectiveness out of each move.

But anyways none of the rules here do that… and it is sure that there need to be some rules to make the game more even.

[Guest]

Historiclly on trn1 Russia took ukraine SSR… I have never agreed with RR Your not playing WW2… Just making the axis look unreal, Superhuman etc.

[kyrial]

Historiclly on trn1 Russia took ukraine SSR… I have never agreed with RR Your not playing WW2… Just making the axis look unreal, Superhuman etc.

Well, historically that’s true… the real reason behind RR is simply to try and counter-balance the advantage the allies have over the axis in the game. I mean historically the Japanese didn’t take all of China or the Soviet Far East either.

RR is a suggestion, albeit one that has made its way into the mainstream, but you don’t have to play it. Some people play bids as a way to kind of even out the game.

It’s no fun to fight an uphill battle the whole game; the game should be more about strategy and seeing who can outmanouver the other side, taking into consideration a little bit of luck (the dice) which anyways represents the traditional “fog of war” affecting things.

Personally I don’t think RR makes the Axis look superhuman and I’ll be honest it’s still tough for the Axis to win if you just play RR.

[Guest]

@kyrial:

Historiclly on trn1 Russia took ukraine SSR… I have never agreed with RR Your not playing WW2… Just making the axis look unreal, Superhuman etc.

Well, historically that’s true… the real reason behind RR is simply to try and counter-balance the advantage the allies have over the axis in the game. I mean historically the Japanese didn’t take all of China or the Soviet Far East either.

RR is a suggestion, albeit one that has made its way into the mainstream, but you don’t have to play it. Some people play bids as a way to kind of even out the game.

It’s no fun to fight an uphill battle the whole game; the game should be more about strategy and seeing who can outmanouver the other side, taking into consideration a little bit of luck (the dice) which anyways represents the traditional “fog of war” affecting things.

Personally I don’t think RR makes the Axis look superhuman and I’ll be honest it’s still tough for the Axis to win if you just play RR.

It was actually nuetral with Russia (jp) until Aug 13 1945

[TG Moses VI]

The only problem I have with 3 hit ARM on defense is that it’s impossible for Dicey to do rolls.

[MistaBiggs]

@TG:

The only problem I have with 3 hit ARM on defense is that it’s impossible for Dicey to do rolls.

You can roll for the Russian tanks as a normal tank … look at what it rolled and if it was a 3 – make corrections on dicey before performing the next round. So it still works … you just got to manipulate it a little.

[TG Moses VI]

Yeah, I guess so.

[kyrial]

It was actually nuetral with Russia (jp) until Aug 13 1945

Yes, and at that point the Soviet’s decided to end the neutrality… coincidentally right before Japan was to surrender :roll:

On a side note, the Army of Manchuria was actually quite large… much larger than is represented in game. This army really never experienced defeat and so many of their soldiers were loathe to lay down arms at the end.