I read this and wasn’t going to add too much, but after reading an article on “medical students’ sense of entitlement”, i felt compelled to respond somewhat . . . .
@F_alk:
@cystic:
as a non-USie, however a person living in a city with a “mixed” population as well as one who reads/watches American news, i think i would be slow to jump on the “racially biased” train. Certainly - as with anywhere - there are police officers who are either ignorant jerks, or (at least here more and more) becoming more aware that there are increased calls to certain areas of the city with a correllate increase in certain populations.
I know of that behavior.
And i could give you a number of reasons why it is perceived much higher
than it actually is. I agree that the ratio of crimes per person is higher, but i guess it perceived about 3-5 times more than it really is!
(1) denser population (means not a garden between the families etc.) leads to “earlier” detection. For example: if you have 5 parties in a building except of one, with one party fighting (like husband beating wife)the probability that one other party will call the police increases dramatically.
(2)You will find what you look for. The more you look, the more you find.
(3)TV tells you so. (Which in turn with (2) leads to a self-amplification)
Alone (2) itself will lead to a self-amplification.
- almost true. At the same time, people in these areas are actually less likely to do something if it is not their problem or does not concern them. Tons of nasty stuff happens downtown, and the people more likely to get involved tend to be white (no stats, however i lived in a nasty part of Winnipeg for a while). There is a fair amount of apathy which renders your point less likely.
- Well yeah, but there are things to point you in that direction in the first place. I know enough cops to be able to suggest that they do not say “hey, i know where some aboriginals live - let’s go see if they’re robbing places/beating each other”.
- working in the ER tells me so.
If you are a police officer in downtown Winnipeg and you reply to 5 domestic violence disputes in aboriginal homes for every 1-2 in a white home, then your expectations begin to shift. If every 1 in 2 armed robbery or mugging downtown is committed by an aboriginal and this is reported in the news, then after a while, you come to realize that you can save some time with basic assumptions.
Best not to ask why this could be the case? I really miss that question:
Why is the domestic violence rate higher in kind of homes?
(and for this example, (1) holds quite good. How many white wifes “have fallen down the stairs”? I could even take this 5 to 1.5 ratio as a sign that whites are anti-social, because they don’t care about what is going on at the neighbors ( i don’t ).)
For the newspaper coverage, sure this “basic assumptions” save time, and change the ratio for non-whites into their dis-favor.
that’s fair, but it really does not go towards the issue of police/judicial bias. At the same time, the courts are well aware of the circumstances that these people grow up in and frequently judgements are based on these “mitigating factors”. Often jail time for these people is deferred for a bulls**t healling circle (pardon my french, but a guy pulls a knife on a dialysis nurse and THIS is his punishment?).
As for why these crimes are higher in these populations - good question. I knew of one native guy who wants to yell at his people saying “did the white man make you drink? Did he make you hit your wife? Smarten up!”
well obviously we do not know the proporation of drivers on the road that are drunk, nor do we know how many were pulled over because they were weaving all over the road, at checkstops, etc.
Exactly.
How many whites beat their wife but no cop is called because in the suburb noone is close enough to hear her?
well, this is a toughie. As i said, i’m not sure that many people call downtown for reasons other than “those guys are being too fricken noisy”. Still, this is fair.
At the same time, we see increases in crime related to ethnic gangs. Increasingly Vietnamese, Chinese and even Indian gangs - bound by common culture and language and perhaps a harsh going at immigration - take to a life of crime.
harsh going at immigration: i would take away the perhaps there.
If you as totally honest non-white, doing your best to “assimilate”, are not allowed to do that, but instead (innocent as you are) are frequently suspected for no other reason than being non-white……
i would not blame you when you say: “f*ck it, if they want me to be criminal, then they can have it!”
i disagree. There are too many nets for immigrants. Many of them come here criminals - to escape the law in their own country, or they come here just looking for a different life. They assume that because we’re multi-cultural blah blah blah - that we’re going to give them life on a plate and that we’re all going to speak whatever language they come here with (fortunately in hospitals, we usually can do that). Also immigrants are less often the targets of investigation than you might think. Most of them are seen as hard-working people. I think you’re trying to invent a situation here that does not exist to the extent you suggest.
These gangs from of “common culture and language”? Why do they stick to their language that much? Why do they think they have to take their culture as a someting to found a society apart from society?
because Canada makes it so easy for them to do that.
This leads to the next question(s):
Which order immigrants form these gangs? How many generations have they stayed, or did they really come to be criminal?
I think i said that here already, but you can see (here in Germany) that the newest generation of Turks is learning less German than the one before, and more sticks to their turkish roots. This is because we Germans never gave them a chance, but always treated as strange, inferior, and now (as they start to actively segregate) as probably criminal.
usually first/second generation. I think it’s unrealistic to say that this is because we “don’t give them a chance”. On the contrary - many efforts are made to encourage multiculturalism and diversity. Many social programs exist to help others. I think that if i were to move to Japan - i would have to be realistic about learning the language and customs/cultures and laws of Japan, in addition to determining the best way to secure income etc.
At the same time, it’s silly not to be realistic about what is going on around you.
I agree, but it is even more silly not to ask what went wrong and how it could be made better.
i think a round of swift kicks to the a$$ is a good start. Too many people have opportunity and they throw it away. An infinite number of choices line the roads of their lives, and they consistently make bad decisions that are often not even good in the short-term. I look at the money and resources that go into the inner-city and reserves (aboriginals) and the efforts made by all levels of gov’t to improve education and health care, and to better people’s lives, and it’s amazing how it is LITERALLY THROWN AWAY (note: not figuratively - i know the difference in the meanings of these too words). I know what you’re saying, but 50 years of work and hundreds of billions of $ have gone into improving these situations, but sometimes you have to just open your eyes and realize that this happens.
