My turn 1 strats seem different than all the others….


  • Pole
    &
    Guest,

    I played one of my first games the way you’ve got it laid out and
    I GOT MY BTUT KICKED!!!

    USSR cannot win, against an experienced player as you have laid out, with Germany producing 10-11 inf the first 3 turns using the available armor judiciously. With Japan shipping 4 inf & 6 inf(or 4 inf/1 arm) & 8 inf(or so) to Manchuria the first 3 turns using its ftrs (as very mobile armor.)

    As suggested go online and play at an A & A site.


  • russia can only play a deffencive game it cannot play the offensive until it has support in china fom the usa and support fromthe uk in the western front until that happens PLAY A DEFFENSIVE GAME ! THATS HOW IT WORKS FOR ME WHEN I PLAY MY BROTHER


  • You will change your mind in regards to oppenings as time goes on … these oppening you state are not all that good, but it would be silly of me to try and explain … you will learn why … the hard way :wink:


  • Can’t, my plans survive on paper, byte and in my mind to return another day!

    Polaryzed, try…RR(Russia Restricted-no attack on R1)

    R1:
    Purchase: 8 inf
    Combat Moves: none
    Noncombat Moves: 1)Kar sz - trn & sub to UK sz,
    2)Rus - 1 inf to Eve(east) remainder to Kar, arm/ftr to Kar,
    3)Cauc - all but 1 inf to Kar,
    4)Eve - 2 inf to Yak,
    5)SFE - 1 inf/arm to Yak
    Placement: 1 inf in Russia to be move east each turn, 7 inf in Karelia

    G1:
    Purchase: 8 inf & 1 trn
    Combat Moves: 1)E Can sz - W Eur ftr v 1 trn(UK),
    2)Gib sz - W Spn sz sub, Ger bmr v BB(UK),
    3)UK sz - Nor/Fin ftr, Ukr ftr, E Eur ftr, Ger ftr, Bal sz trn & sub v BB(UK), trn(UK), sub® & trn®[[i]NOTE: trn may wait to move either 1 arm or 2 inf to E Eur or Alg],
    4)FWA - Alg 1 inf(walk in),
    5)E Med sz - C Med BB, C Med trn(2 inf from S Eur) v 1 sub(UK),
    6)FEA - Lib arm(Blitz),
    7)AES - Lib 1 inf, FEA arm post-Blitz, S Eur 2 inf(if survived naval battle in E Med sz) v 1 inf, 1 arm.
    Noncombat Moves: 1)Ukr - all arm/inf (but 1 inf) to E Eur,
    2)E Can sz ftr to W Eur,
    3)Gib sz bmr to Ger[[i]NOTE: maybe W Eur to hit EUS trns],
    4)UK sz ftrs(1 ftr to W Eur, 3 ftrs to E Eur - if only 3 ftrs left 2 ftrs to E Eur),
    5)W Eur - 2 arm to E Eur,
    6)S Eur - arm & AA to E Eur,
    7)Ger - 2 inf to W Eur, 2 inf to E Eur
    Placements: trn in C Med sz, 6 inf in Germany, 2 inf in S Eur.

    UK1:
    Purchase: It depends(open to others alternatives…)
    Combat Moves: 1)
    Noncombat Moves: 1)
    Placements:

    **J1:**Try figuring this out…
    Purchase: 2 trns & 3 inf
    Combat Moves: 1)Kill US fleet in Haw sz,
    2)kill Chi(US) units & take Chi,
    3)???
    Noncombat Moves:
    Placements:

    US1: It’s all yours…


  • Dat was me dambit! :evil:

    Seez you! :roll:

    Who sed dat!?! :o


  • I see no point in Japan attacking US at Pearl Harbor. It’s better to retreat the fleet to japan to support the tranports you’'ve got there, plus having the fleet with you if you plan to go against alaska.

    Japan should also try to get a IC on mainland for better speed in their attacks.

    UK should also try to get a IC in India to keep Japan busy so russia can focus on germany together with US.


  • I agree with Gorion on the following:

    @Gorion:

    Japan should also try to get a IC on mainland for better speed in their attacks.

    However, I don’t agree with:

    @Gorion:

    UK should also try to get a IC in India to keep Japan busy so russia can focus on germany together with US.

    It has been in my experience that India is usually taken out by Japan on turn 1. Everytime that I have ever built an I.C. on India (with U.K. on turn one) – it has fallen into Japanese hands. India only has 2 infantry and 1 fighter. All Japan has to do is attack it with the following:

    2 infantry and 1 fighter from French Indochina-Burma (fighter lands back in French Indochina-Burma);
    2 infantry (via transport) from Phillipines;
    1 bomber from Japan (bomber lands in French Indochina-Burma);
    and if Russia didn’t eliminate or playing RR – 1 fighter from Manchuria (fighter lands in French Indochina-Burma).

    Japan can then reinforce French Indochina-Burma with 2 infantry from Japan (via transport), 1 fighter from the aircraft carrier in the Caroline Islands sea zone and 1 fighter from the Phillipines.

    This will leave French Indochina-Burma with 2 infantry (possibly 4 – see below), 3 fighters (or 4 if Manchuria’s fighter survives Russia’s attack or playing RR) and 1 bomber.

    China only has 2 infantry and 1 fighter. Japan can also attack China with the following:

    2 infantry from Kwangtung;
    3 infantry from Manchuria (if playing RR);
    and 1 fighter from Japan (fighter lands in French Indochina-Burma.

    NOTE: If not playing RR … Japan should move 2 infantry from Kwangtung to French Indochina-Burma to boost up defensives and prepare for attacking China and/or Sinkiang on turn 2.

    If Japan bought an I.C. (and places it on French Indochina-Burma) and saves the rest (10 I.P.C.'s) or buys a transport (and saves 2 I.P.C.'s) … look out in turn two!

    It doesn’t matter what U.S. does – Japan will eliminate them from Asia in turn 2.

    This is a Japanese victory in Asia anyway you spell it.

    Mista Biggs


  • Well, if UK leaves africa to US and UK moves some of his tropps from africa to idia, he should have enough troops to atleast deal a great amount of damage to japan when he attacks india and if it falls, US can retake it for UK if japan doesn’t put lal his forces against the US i china.


  • I think Gorion and MistaBiggs should duke it out via a one on one game and demonstrate to all of us how it works.


  • BEST case scenario:

    U.K. survives Germany’s attack of Anglo-Sudan Egypt without losing a single unit (VERY unlikely). This would allow the transport from India to pickup the infantry in Anglo-Sudan Egypt and the infantry in Syria-Iraq and drop them back into India. The only other U.K. unit that could reach India is the bomber. This would give India a total of 4 infantry, 1 fighter and the bomber. Japan could have a maximum of 4 infantry, 1 bomber and 2 fighters (if Russia didn’t eliminate the fighter in Manchuria or playing RR). I still think Japan wins – however, they probably won’t have any ground units to take the territory unless they sacrifice a plane.

    But this is the BEST case scenario, so …

    If U.K. keeps the I.C., U.S.A. moves both infantry from Sinkiang and the fighter from China to India on it’s first turn, the tank from Anglo-Sudan Egypt (moved to Persia on turn 1) moves to India and (let’s say U.K. moved both fighters to Russia or Karelia on turn 1) U.K. moves the two fighters to India … and on turn 2 U.K. buys 2 fighters and an infantry for India – this would give India 3 infantry (2 U.S.A. and 1 U.K.), 5 fighters (1 U.S.A. and 4 U.K.), and 1 U.K. tank.

    This would definitely allow U.K. to hold India in turn two; however, this will 85% NEVER happen.

    Germany will probably win in Ango-Sudan Egypt. This will only enable U.K. to pickup 1 infantry in Syria-Iraq and fly the bomber over to India. India will have 1 fighter, 1 bomber and 3 infantry. Japan will win and take the territory. U.S.A. will retake India, but Japan will then retake India and eliminate U.S.A. from Asia on turn 2. The rest is history!


  • In the scenario where Germany takes AES, it may be more effective for the UK player to non-combat move the India TRN to the Burma SZ, thus blocking the 2 INF from Phil.

    Other things to consider is

    • Russia could send a FTR or two to India as well
    • There is a chance the UK sub in the WMD retreats to the Red SZ which could also act as a blocker in the Burma SZ allowing the India TRN to pick up the INF from Syria

    If the Allies really want to hold India for the first couple of turns, all it takes is a little planning.


  • I agree … it is possible (very hard though) and it would take the cooperation of all 3 of the Allies to hold India – but, this would leave Russia at Germany’s mercy. I would love to be the Axis in this situation.


  • @MistaBiggs:

    I agree … it is possible (very hard though) and it would take the cooperation of all 3 of the Allies to hold India – but, this would leave Russia at Germany’s mercy. I would love to be the Axis in this situation.

    First of all, if the Allies do not work together, then the Axis will win anyway. The Allies have to work together!

    If the Russians try to stack Karelia AND non-combat move the FTRs to India, then yes you are correct. However, the Russians could move into the Caucasus in force and set up Karelia as a dead zone for Russia 2. The FTRs can get back to Karelia for a R2 attack if needed.


  • Correct…


  • 1. An all out R1 attack on Finland, EE, Ukraine & possibly Manch is a terrible set of attacks. I can only assume the author does not understand the basic math behind the game. The odds for all the European attacks are terrible. Russia will not have 1 or 2 units left in each place; rather, they will be lucky not to lose 2 of those 3 battles. Further, you leave the Baltic in-tact, unless you risk another bad battle of sub & tranny vs sub & tranny. As noted, Germany will respond with Inf first. Finally, the 2 Russian fighters are the most important Allied starting pieces and cannot be thrown away…else Russia has no ability to trade in Asia.

    2. The UK should never decide what they are going to do on UK 1, until after the German move. Knowing this, the Russia should never commit to an India defence on R1. It is fine to move some armour or even a trooper or 2 to Persia…but those Ftrs should NOT go to India on R1. You are tying UKs hands.

    3. Depending on bids or not, extra G1 tranny buy or not. (Assuming not). If Germany takes AES on G1, then the UK should take it back immediately on UK 1 by using the Syria Inf, 2 India Inf, the India Ftr and the UK bomber. You will vacate Asia earlier giving Japan a good start…but you stop the Afrika Corps before they get started. Move up your S Africa Inf, land the Ftr & Bomber with them in Kenya (or in IEA). If Germany retakes AES with 2 Inf on G2, you retake it again with Kenya & your air. The point is that if you bottle Germany to the mainland immediately they are virtually out of the picture and will have to go entirely defensive. The 9 points in Africa are the most important points in the game from an economic point of view. If the Allies hold Africa at the outset with minimal extra troops, establish the full pipeline immediately, and have no real distractions in Europe/Africa…then Germany is cooked and you need only worry about Japan.

    4. Personally, I never build Indian ICs…but if you want to the rules are this: never build one if AES falls on G1. Only build one if you place the Syria Inf and AES Inf there on UK 1 and the armour in Persia. Additional backup of Russians in position to retake and the UK bomber in India is/are gravy.

    5. Presuming you have done #4…Japan CANNOT attack with 4 Inf, 2 Ftrs, 1 Bomber. The FIC/Burma Ftr MUST first clear the UK tranny from the IndiaSz. This leaves only 1 Ftr to attack India. Do the math…this is a terrible attack for Japan on J1. Just landing the 2 troops via tranny is scary…if your FTR gets pegged by the UK tranny your attack will be a total disaster. Even if you land them, the main battle sucks for odds. Further, you severely impede the ability to attack China and Pearl, you have at least 1 tranny (if it lives) in IndiaSz which is easily pegged by the UK bomber (1 reason not to put it into India). Further, you likely need the other tranny to reinforce FIC/Burma (assuming you attack China as well)…this whole scenario is folly for Japan on J1 if the UK has 4 Inf & Ftr there.

    6. Russia should never attack (take) Manch on R1 unless UK is going to follow-up in Kwang on UK 1…in which case, UK forgets about Germany/AES and goes with the Kwang surprise and lands their Ftr in China as well (assuming it lives). This is the one exception to the wait till Germany goes rule for the UK. If Russia commits and takes Manch you are foolish Not to expect/plan for the UK to follow-up. Otherwise, Russia has wasted 5 Inf and an armour of its Eastern force…units which are critical to slow Japan. Having them squashed for no reason on the inevitable J1 counter is folly. But take Manch AND Kwang and its worth it, reducing the Jap to 2 Inf on the mainland, likely keeping China & Pearl safe and slows the Japs 2 full turns.

    7. Similarly, Japan should never decide until after UK 1. Hitting Pearl (at least Lite) is usually preferable to no Pearl at all, but it depends on too many variables to list here in full…Kwang Surprise? Skies Over Siberia? etc Which Allied opening is being played? Against a solid Allied player you should never expect to take India on J1 unless it is a 1 Inf freebie walk-in. There are simply too many other things to do…unless the Allied player is very weak.

    8. The early J swarm strategy ICs/Armour is fun but easily defeated by a solid Allied player using standard orderly retreat and Yakut wall strategies. If you do not make an immediate breakthrough…which you won’t against a solid player…your armour heavy forces will simply sit around and wait for more Inf to arrive. This effectively worsens Japan’s start and slows the overall threat to Russia proper. The upside is a first couple of turn easier exapnsion, but typically every single place you get, you can get with just the Inf push anyway. In the early to mid-game the Asian front is typically defined by NUMBERS of units, NOT type of units. In short, Japan has more than enough Air to make all the nickel and dime attacks it needs to make on the mainland after J1…thus sheer unit volumes ie: Inf push…is far superior to theoretical armour heavy attacks…which won’t be given with orderly retreat…thus you will sit and wait and have the wrong mix of units 2 turns later.

    9. Japan does not need ICs to win. The majority of my games see no Jap ICs bought ever. I typically want at least 9 Jap trannies by mid-game. I’ll leave why and what to do with them for another post…as this is getting too long.

    10. Nothing. Just here to make this an even 10 :)


  • Well put Guest.

    Plans do depend on prior moves…

    There are few things that are CERTAIN in A&A, thus … it is hard to talk strategy, b/c there are so many variables/situations (and NO ONE can predict the dice).

    Thanks for the post!


  • Japan makes a move on Alaska. Whop dee do! The US should be prepared for that and happy to see Japan taking the pressure off of the USSR.

    I have won most games I played as Japan without an IC on the mainland. Once I have 5 trns or more I can ship 8 inf & 1 arm each turn to the mainland. After J3 or J4, with about 40 IPCs, I can also add a ftr or another trns & inf to help take more of the Pacific/S. America or Africa…depending on which way I’ve already expanded the Empire.

    To get us out of this rut…

    You guys oughta hear TG Moses VI tell how his sister, TM Moses IV, builds the mega-RAF every time she plays as UK and kicks sas.

    Anyone else wanna chime in?


  • I am with you Jefe, the transport bridge is the way to go with Japan and if the US should ever leave itself short a round, you have the vessels and the troops to plop down on their soil for a quick toss up of their strat for a round or two.

    Funny you should say something about the RAF strat, that is one of my favorite for UK. Just building planes and try to use what little resource I have at the beginning to maintain Africa. After UK5 and I have a nice airforce sitting on the ground, usually in the big K helping guard it so that Russia can build up the back side, and the US can shuck troops over to help the front side. Anytime Ger. throws ships in the water the mighty RAF take to the skies and punishes the silly sailors for even thinking about going anywhere. I believe this is a far better use of the limited UK cash flow then trying to throw money away at an eventual lost cause in India…

    Just my two cents


  • @haxorboy:

    Just building planes and try to use what little resource I have at the beginning to maintain Africa. After UK5 and I have a nice airforce sitting on the ground, usually in the big K helping guard it so that Russia can build up the back side, and the US can shuck troops over to help the front side. Anytime Ger. throws ships in the water the mighty RAF take to the skies and punishes the silly sailors for even thinking about going anywhere. I believe this is a far better use of the limited UK cash flow then trying to throw money away at an eventual lost cause in India…

    I agree with haxorboy. I think the India IC is a lost cause. UK should definitely build fighters for defending Russia and clearing the seas. This will allow USA to shuck-shuck. Well put!


  • Well, after doing some mathematics I have also decided that an IC in India is a waste of money.

    And IC on mainland for Japan however I found better then just suing transports. It’s better to only move Infs with teh transports and place the tanks on the IC on mainland. This way Japan reach Russian with a greater force.

    However, the Axis don’t stand a chance if you do not play with bids, that’s my honest opinion. So from now on I will always play with bids. (and RR offcourse)

    But the amount of IPC that Axis should start out with is abit unsure atm. Last time they got 10 IPC, which proved to be kinda to much. It might be that we haven’t played with bids before and that the Allies did some misstakes, so we’ll try it out again with 10m and if it’s still to much I’ll consider an amount of 6.

    What’s your exp with bids?

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