New Tax System, how would you do it?

[Xi]

wa__s,
Bill paid his people better than they were paid before they worked for him.
Some of the millionaires he made by paying them … others by building on what he started.

T_6, thou quoteth the Master Milton!
Genuflect and whip thyself, pageturner. :P

[TG Moses VI]

TG Moses VI I have to disagree with you there 1 million may sound a good point but what about small business owners?? They may be worth let say 2 million but have 80% in the business and not as cash. As long as small business owners are not touched, keep the death tax.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be so much against that. :)
However, the super rich have the ability to hide their cash in many accounts, ect.

[Guest]

@Yanny:

I don’T know how it works in the US, but dividends should be taxed like any other income as well, as it is nothing more than an additional income.

Any profits given to stockholders has already been taxed. Why should it be taxed again?

Because it is income?
If you pay income taxes, and with your money pay a plumber or whatever…. then this plumber has to pay income taxes as well, that would be the same double taxing.
If you see the dividend as income of the worth of the money you invest, and your wage (correct word?) as the income of the worth of work you invest… why should they be treated differently?

[Yanny]

Because you already own part of that company. The company has already made the money. Now, they simply are giving out money to the owners of a company. Your not working for the company, you are the company. Any money received still counts towards your total income earned for the year, it just isnt taxed.

[DeviantScripter]

He earned it. How can a single person do work that is worth say 100 millions? Ok, a few can probably, but there are more earning that amount that don’t work for it, but let others work for them. Seeing rich people look for loopholes is seeing that they try to exploit the society even more, that they do not take up the responsibilities that come with their wealth. You say the “lazy unemployed” is the one who rips off the community?? You must be kidding, but i fear you are not.

Okay, again…it’s not your job or anybody elses to decide whether his work is worth a million dollars or not. Our society dictates how much people make. Michael Jordon and all the other sports stars made millions because people were willing to pay $50 a game to go see them play.

So please answer this question Deviant:Scripter

What would happen if you put more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands?? I’ll bet it won’t be good for most of the people of the nation.

Why are their fewer and fewer hands? I fail to see how passing down money from generation to generation will form a “monopoly.” Ok, so Bill Gates has $50 billion…and that affects me how? I’m not comparing myself or my income to him, so however much money he makes affects me in no way whatsoever.

Monoplys don’t help the common man they only help the rich!

Are you sure about that? Becuase there have been beneficial monopolies…

Okay, since I answered your question, you can answer mine:

Will your parents or grandparents be affected by the death tax?

[BigBlocky]

Beneficial monopolies? Ummm, I doubt there are many examples and NO examples were this behaviour lasted long. People point out the Microsoft is a beneficial monopoly…… Beneficial? Only to MS shareholders, ask the shareholders of pret near any other software competitor.

How is a $400 tax (MS OS and basic software) or $1000 tax (MS OS and MS Office) on a $500 computer good for any business but MS? MS is stagnent so they come up with new ways for you to pay for what you thought you already owned.

You buy a new computer with windows… you don’t own windows… If you sell the computer you can’t include windows by the terms of the contract you accepted by opening the shrinkwrap plastic in order to read the contract (nice how that works eh…). Hell, if you buy a new computer you can’t even use the windows from your old computer, if you do you are a software PIRATE and a threat to western civilization… snickers.

MS has made and still tries to make companies sign contracts that state they must purchase a copy of windows for EVERY computer they sell regards of what OS actually shipped with it… Hey, nobody puts a gun to Dell’s head, if they don’t like it they can ship all their dells with say Dr. Dos or Beos or maybe even Solaris or something…

Name one good monopoly and I’ll show you a company that prevents innovation and spends lots of money on lobbyists…

BB

gets down off his soap box…

[Xi]

The wealthy often know or learn how to play the $ game(e.g., Kennedy’s.)
Typically after three generations they don’t pass this wisdom on.
Companies know how to play the game, too. But, again after a certain time, technology, war, etc., most of them fail or become a minor player.
Politicians also know how to play the game. Yet it seems that this wisdom is also lost after a few generations.
For example, Gov. Taft of Ohio is the great grand whatever of President Taft. Now the current Taft became governor of Ohio, but has shown, through the handling of the Ohio state budget, that he is a mediocre politician. I could have told you that before he was elected Gov. the first time. :cry:

[DeviantScripter]

@BigBlocky:

Beneficial monopolies? Ummm, I doubt there are many examples and NO examples were this behaviour lasted long. People point out the Microsoft is a beneficial monopoly…… Beneficial? Only to MS shareholders, ask the shareholders of pret near any other software competitor.

How is a $400 tax (MS OS and basic software) or $1000 tax (MS OS and MS Office) on a $500 computer good for any business but MS? MS is stagnent so they come up with new ways for you to pay for what you thought you already owned.

You buy a new computer with windows… you don’t own windows… If you sell the computer you can’t include windows by the terms of the contract you accepted by opening the shrinkwrap plastic in order to read the contract (nice how that works eh…). Hell, if you buy a new computer you can’t even use the windows from your old computer, if you do you are a software PIRATE and a threat to western civilization… snickers.

MS has made and still tries to make companies sign contracts that state they must purchase a copy of windows for EVERY computer they sell regards of what OS actually shipped with it… Hey, nobody puts a gun to Dell’s head, if they don’t like it they can ship all their dells with say Dr. Dos or Beos or maybe even Solaris or something…

Name one good monopoly and I’ll show you a company that prevents innovation and spends lots of money on lobbyists…

BB

gets down off his soap box…

The United States Postal Service.

[Xi]

Couldn’t just qoute his last major line, could you!! :roll:

[waraxis]

Deviant:Scripter Do you realize how much wealth the top 1% owns in this country?? Almost half!! between 40%-45% depending on who you hear it from. What will happen when they own 90% and leave the rest of us crumbs?? I’ll tell you what will hapen. Tyranny. Then revolution. The rich can’t keep grabbing all the wealth and leave us with nothing and expect us not to do something about. I have some problems with Marxist thinking but Karl Marx did have point. Captialism will collapse in on itself if it contunies to keep getting greeder and greeder!!!

And for monoplys picking the U.S. postal service is a bad choice, the only reason they still around is mainly cause of letters. The day U.P.S. can do letters the postal service is in trouble!

[Guest]

What will happen when they own 90% and leave the rest of us crumbs??

What is your source?
Who is saying that they will ever own 90% of the wealth??

Do you realize that the MAJORITY of wealthy people in this country today, EARNED their wealth throughout their lifetime? Contrary to what socialists would have you believe, most people did not inherit their wealth, but rather they EARNED it.

Now, back to the “death tax.” :wink:
1.) The existence of the estate tax this century has reduced the stock of capital in the economy by approximately $497 billion, or 3.2 percent.

2.) The Death tax is the #1 reason that families and businesses GO BROKE! That’s according to the Joint Economic Committee (United States Congress, 1998)

3.) http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/estattax/estattax.htm

[BigBlocky]

Deviant:Scripter:

The US post office is hardly a monopoly, UPS and Fedex ring a bell? Moreover, it’s government so is hardly vicious against competition. I doubt the US post office makes a profit, even if it did at what expense. Just because a monopoly earns a buck doesn’t mean it’s good. It means better hands don’t get a chance to work on the problem.

BB

[DeviantScripter]

You’re right Blocky, I’m sorry it’s a crime to be successful in this country…

[Candyman67]

Get rid of the income tax. That will solve all the problems, especially the debate about which is better a progressive or flat income tax. It won’t happen at the Federal level because the government spends too much damn money.

[Guest]

@Deviant:Scripter:

Name one good monopoly and I’ll show you a company that prevents innovation and spends lots of money on lobbyists……

The United States Postal Service.

Is that a privately owned company or a gov’t owned one?
If it was the second… then you surely would love a gov’t run monopolistic heatlh insurance etc. (there is this notion of “state monopoly capitalism” in the solcialistic theories).

[Guest]

@Yanny:

Because you already own part of that company. The company has already made the money. Now, they simply are giving out money to the owners of a company.

Ok, this reasoning says it should not be taxed.

Your not working for the company, you are the company. Any money received still counts towards your total income earned for the year, it just isnt taxed.

This last sentence i don’t understand. So, it is income, but not taxed as income? Then it is only fair that it is taxed before (btw, are the tax rates for dividends lower than for money earned by work? i have no idea, but i would guess: yes, they are lower.)

[Xi]

@BB:

The US post office is hardly a monopoly, UPS and Fedex ring a bell? Moreover, it’s government so is hardly vicious against competition. I doubt the US post office makes a profit, even if it did at what expense. Just because a monopoly earns a buck doesn’t mean it’s good. It means better hands don’t get a chance to work on the problem.

ERROR:
I have worked for the USPS. The USPS sets the prices for UPS and Fedex.

Gentlemen,
Corporations, businesses, nor companies(redundant, aren’t I?)pay taxes.
People pay taxes. If a business pays taxes, it passes the cost on to the customer!

[Yanny]

This last sentence i don’t understand. So, it is income, but not taxed as income? Then it is only fair that it is taxed before (btw, are the tax rates for dividends lower than for money earned by work? i have no idea, but i would guess: yes, they are lower.)

Yes. Dividend tax is a flat tax. Income tax flucuates depending on your overall income (which includes non-Paycheck related income such as Dividends and other investments).

[waraxis]

To whoever it may concern( I’m refering to the “Guest”)

The idea that super rich familes getting more and more money will help the common family how?? Cause a billionare gets a paycheck doesn’t mean he earned it. Tell me someone how the CEO of Ford earns his fat paycheck when he hasn’t built one car?? All that guy ever does is sit on his @$$ behind his desk that his line workers would have a hard time affording wearing his suit that would take a line worker 6 months to buy, thinking of ways to screw his workers OOPS sorry cutting costs.

I have no problem for small time millionares families keeping their money, I have nothing against small business owners!

But for those FAT CATS who got their money through the stock market, like when guy or girl gets a big boost of money cause some company sent jobs to another country and their stock goes up. Not caring what happened to the small town those jobs were in. :evil: :evil: It really gets me mad when the company does it when they were already making huge profits :evil: :evil:

Those decisions are made by the rich and the super rich.

Maybe if the rich wouldn’t be so greedy and think of other people, then maybe I wouldn’t be upset with them. How much does the rich need??
By the way “Guest” you earn money by doing a job not by sitting behind a desk wearing stuff your workers can’t get.

IM AGAINST BIG BUSSINESS, BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG MONEY!!!

None of those 3 are good for the common man or woman!!!

Xi the postal service was a monoply in the begining,but now All they have going for them are letters, but with E-Mail that could be in danger. You are right about the company passing its costs to the customer but then again if you think about it the cost of taxes and profits are relative along with everything else in the bussiness

[Xi]

war__, I’ve worked with bulk mail(packages and mass mailings.) I’ve seen how poorly your packages are treated. I only use Fedex and UPS. I hope to see the day these are competive! Your letters and all bulk mail are keeping the USPS afloat.

So, why tax a business if it’s all passed to the comsumer?
And then the consumer pays taxes on his purchases!