I’ve never played 2HBB but I’m a big believer in saving planes. I would use 2 subs and tran from Baltic in North Sea, BB and perhaps bomber in Med vs. BB. Take tour chances with 2 trans vs. sub on UK1. Don’t attack Egypt unless feeeleng particularly lucky. Oh yes, all fighters in north Sea battle.
I guess the UK BBs have to be killed at all cost.
Why? German planes have to be protected at all cost
I don’t think leaving any UK BBs alive is a good idea. It means almost losing 1 INF every turn from bombardment.
Take tour chances with 2 trans vs. sub on UK1.
Can be hit by UK BMR also. I don’t think the BB should leave the trans.
Forgot about the bomber. Maybe use a fighter against med sub, hope it hits and hope UK doesn’t want to risk bomber against 2trans. I think you really need to attack UK medBB with germanBB. With 2hitBB you have to hope for a lot.
The UK and US (especially) can afford to risk anything. :D
I don’t think leaving any UK BBs alive is a good idea. It means almost losing 1 INF every turn from bombardment.
UK have to lose 1 INF every turn in order to bombard WE every turn, and UK won’t do it. On the other hand, UK would like to attack WE if WE has less fighters to defend.
BTW, anybody ever tried this German fleet opening? It’s common in the zone.
2 subs and 3 fighters and 1 tranny to UK Sea Zone
1 fighter to UK lone transport
BB and loaded tranny to E Med, kill sub if lucky
1 fighter, 1 Arm and 1 inf to Egypt
2 inf and 1 bomber to Syria
So leaving the UK BB
Buy 8 inf and 1 sub (Place in Med)
At turn end, Germany should have Both Syria and Egypt captured. Fleet in E Med with ALL UK fighters and bombers out of range. Anything left in Egypt are waiting to die but German tranny can surely transport another 2 inf to take back Egypt next turn
The new lone sub is used to block the UK BB from the main fleet (Which if there is none, I as UK will surely go after the German fleet and kill the tranny in UK1). If lucky enough, the sub can survive and retreat in G2 merging with the fleet, inflicting more damage to UK fighters in UK2 or 3.
Germany can save all of its fighters in normal case. 5 fighters and 1 bomber also makes UK newly established fleet more uncomfortable (Especially if UK decide to have onlt the remaining BB to protect the entire new fleet). With the lineline to Africa stay intact to G2 or perhaps G3.
This strategy has its advantage.
BTW, anybody ever tried this German fleet opening? It’s common in the zone.
2 subs and 3 fighters and 1 tranny to UK Sea Zone
1 fighter to UK lone transport
BB and loaded tranny to E Med, kill sub if lucky
1 fighter, 1 Arm and 1 inf to Egypt
2 inf and 1 bomber to Syria
So leaving the UK BB
Buy 8 inf and 1 sub (Place in Med)At turn end, Germany should have Both Syria and Egypt captured. Fleet in E Med with ALL UK fighters and bombers out of range. Anything left in Egypt are waiting to die but German tranny can surely transport another 2 inf to take back Egypt next turn
The new lone sub is used to block the UK BB from the main fleet (Which if there is none, I as UK will surely go after the German fleet and kill the tranny in UK1). If lucky enough, the sub can survive and retreat in G2 merging with the fleet, inflicting more damage to UK fighters in UK2 or 3.
Germany can save all of its fighters in normal case. 5 fighters and 1 bomber also makes UK newly established fleet more uncomfortable (Especially if UK decide to have onlt the remaining BB to protect the entire new fleet). With the lineline to Africa stay intact to G2 or perhaps G3.This strategy has its advantage.
Those are pretty good moves for 2HBB. I’m now inclined to leave the UK Med BB alone. I’ll also consider buying a TRN later depending on how aggressive the allies are in retaking Africa. How successful is this strategy in the zone BTW? Anyone care to present a counter? :D
With 1HBB I’ll go with Xi as amph aslt is risky.
Morphling, that is a pretty similiar strategy to what I play on Germany ion turn one. But I take things a step further. Even though you may lose a fighter or two, I think it is worth taking out every allied ship on the board. It is taaking a bit of a chance, but when your Germany you have to go balls out. I never bother to reinforce Africa after the first turn either. those resources should be directed at Russia, and the UK fleet.
Until your Med fleet is lost, I think Germany should spend some resources in Africa to distract the Allies. They have to send a large army to retake and keep you out of Africa, to defend the three north African countries from amph aslt of 4 INFs, BB bombardment and planes. All of these take pressure off you in Europe. But I won’t send anything to Africa unless it’s under attack though.
The german fleet usually cannot survive for long against good allies. The opening metioned above can only make sure the tranny surviving thru G2, and rarely to G3. But that will be enough for german because germany needs only 4-6 additional inf to Africa in the game. If you allocate more, either WE or EE is vulnerable to attacks. They might not fall in one attack, but allies can always do a double to do so (US and UK for WE, USSR and UK for EE).
I’ll also consider buying a TRN later depending on how aggressive the allies are in retaking Africa. How successful is this strategy in the zone BTW? Anyone care to present a counter?
Trust me, German needs only 1 tranny and if you can keep it long enough, you done your job as a good german player
Most games in the zone are quite similar in progress. German take MOST AFrica (If you can’t, be better next game). Allies landed in West Africa, then German retreat, SLOWLY, one by one, counter attack if there is opportunity, but don’t let Allies take back Africa fast. Then Japan land 2 inf on Africa, occupying places with no defense so as to slow down the allies a little bit.
If that can be done, Axis does it perfect job in Africa, and the rest is determined by Japs and USSR (Asian frontier)
Germany’s main objective is to survive untill Japan can chew up USSR.
If GER can get a few extra IPCs in Africa, Yippee!
But, SINK the UK W MED BB! Otherwise UK has a BB to move to UK sz and add a TRN and CV (carrier) on which US lands 2 FTRs on US1 (plus 1 US TRN.)
What’s the Luftwaffe gonna do against that fleet?
–----------------------
OOOOOOOOOOOW!
But is there big difference with 1 CV + 4 tranny and 1BB + 1 CV + 4 tranny in UK sz?
If US and UK want to make a d-day on WE which has 14 inf and 3-4 fighters, they will pay for it.
And if W Med BB retreat to UK sz at UK1, Ger can also merge sub with 1 tranny and 1 BB at E Med, what the RAF can do with this fleet? THey got to suicide bomber and fighters to eliminate it, Axis hurray.
In 1HBB I’ll sink the UK Med BB in a heart beat. In 2HBB it’s risky. Think about it: would you go after the UK sz fleet on G2, with or without the UK BB in it? The UK CV keeps Ger at bay forever.
On the other hand, 2HBB let Japan run wild in the Pacific. :D
@Dirt:
In 1HBB I’ll sink the UK Med BB in a heart beat. In 2HBB it’s risky. Think about it: would you go after the UK sz fleet on G2, with or without the UK BB in it? The UK CV keeps Ger at bay forever.
On the other hand, 2HBB let Japan run wild in the Pacific. :D
Well, the difference between a BB or no BB is at least 2/3 of a fighter lost to germany.
And if you as Japan run wild in the pacific with 2H BB, then i would love to play the Allies against you. IMHO anything that Japan does use there is pretty much wasted.
With 2HBB Japan usually destroy the whole US Pacific fleet with a loss of sub and one hit each on the BBs (assuming US doesn’t counterattack Pearl). After that Japan is virtually unopposed in the Pacific. By running wild I mean taking a TRN, 2 INF and 2 BBs and attack Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, etc. If you play no counterattack from bombardment (the way it should be), the 2 INFs should be around for a long time. Do this until the US put up some decent defence on North America. This doesn’t take too much away from the mainland campaign. What else are you going to do with the BBs anyway. Why just park them in Japan sz? Why not have some fun with them? :wink:
@F_alk:
Well, the difference between a BB or no BB is at least 2/3 of a fighter lost to germany.
But you don’t go after UK sz in G2 anyway, with or without the BB. That’s why it may be better to concentrate on the UK sz on G1 and ignore the Med BB to reduce plane losses.
Sorry. I don’t usually play 2 hit BB … gimme a sec …
:-?
:o
:P
8)
Okay! Leave the UK Gibraltar BB.
But hit the E MED sz SUB, E CAN sz TRN and all the UK sz schtuff!
You might consider landing the BMR in W EUR
to hit a possible weak US build.
Don’t send too much to Africa … the main Allied objective is Germany.
This is a great topic. I myself have yet to really figure this out, but it’s still fun to speculate!
I guess it really comes down to what you plan to do in Africa: that is more or less commitment. What I mean is, do you attempt to build another TR T1, or just go w/ what you’ve got on the board & hope for the best?
If you build a TR T1, IMO it is too valuable to risk its useless destruction. Therefore your options are limited. You ought to hole up your fleet in Central Med SZ to protect the new build & thenceforth start funneling troops to Africa as long as you can keep the fleet alive. Trading Caucases is a good way to do this but it’s not always possible, and of course you don’t own Gibraltar either! That’s the problem–building any new fleet units for Germany–EVER–is a big risk 'cuz its a lot of IPCs for maybe NO EFFECT! This I believe is a flaw in the original game, since therefore Germany hardly ever has a SUB fleet to speak of…
So what if you go w/ what’s on the board? Well the TR is still very important because it will be the only one you get. To use it as cannon-fodder would be folly, but there is the advantage that you don’t have to guard the Central Med SZ to protect a new TR build on G1. One tactic I’ve tried is hit Gibraltar w/ 1 SUB, 1 FTR & 1 BB, w/ the TR loading an ARM in reserve. Hit the beaches w/ the ARM when the BB is destroyed & take Gibraltar. Here’s the kicker–lose the FTR to the BB counterattack! I know Germany should never lose FTRs, but without CVs, FTRs can’t dfend SZs & the idea is to keep a small fleet alive for later use. Without Gibraltar, the only air units that can hit your fleet is the BMR from UK (+1 BMR from USA too if you failed to take & keep French West Africa, Central Africa, or to keep Libya). Provided you destroyed the SUB at Suez Canal, the UK may–MAY–think twice about hitting your little fleet T1, giving you a chance to escape. The disadvantage of this is the loss of 1 precious FTR, the weakening of your North Sea attack , & the risk to your fleet. The advantages are a slightly larger fleet (add one SUB you would’ve lost), & Gibraltar–a strategic territory. Keep in mind that should you lose the battle vs the UK SUB, or if the UK BMR attacks anyway, you also risk losing an ARM stuck in Gibraltar w/ no hope of escape exept thru Spain!
You could also launch an attack on the UK SUB w/ an amphibious engagement in Egypt. This is too great a risk IMO unless you play w/ 2-hit-BBs in which case it becomes an attractive option. Don’t build a new TR T1 in this case.
There are I’m sure more options but these are the ones that occur to me. I intend to post a topic directed at experts concerning just this particular area. Interested to see the results.
That is all. Return to your posts.
Ozone27
I’ve been wanting to try something but have never had the guts to do it in a game because it goes against basic German strat of never losing planes, and I think it might be a lost cause. But I’ll pitch it to you guys anyway, so you can point out the flaws or what UK would do. It is basically a sacrifice Germany airforce rd 1 here goes: (Assuming RR, 1 hit BB, and Rus reinforce UK sz with sub and tranny)
Hit UK med BB with 2 ftrs
Hit UK sz with 2 ftrs, 1 bom, 1 sub (baltic sz)
Hit E can sz with ftr
Yes you lose tons of ftrs, but here is the catch you move the entire German fleet to W Spain sz, plus tank from Fin to Afr, and 2 inf SE to Afr. So, you have 1 BB, 1 sub, and 2 trns in the W Spain sz and the ability to threaten Afr, UK, Can, US and Brazil.
Now, would UK send ftrs and bom to hit the Ger fleet? And what would UK buy wih its 30?
I think I would hit the fleet as UK with my planes but I’m not sure.
What are your guys thoughts on this strat and how would you play it as UK.
@Dirt:
… After that Japan is virtually unopposed in the Pacific. By running wild I mean taking a TRN, 2 INF and 2 BBs and attack Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, etc. If you play no counterattack from bombardment (the way it should be), the 2 INFs should be around for a long time.
Long time? There is no way to put the Infs back on sea the same turn, so they are on land for one turn, in which they will/have to be attacked.
So, that long time is approximately 1 round.
Do this until the US put up some decent defence on North America.
A decent enough defense is one or two tanks sitting back until you land.
What else are you going to do with the BBs anyway. Why just park them in Japan sz? Why not have some fun with them? :wink:
Sure, but why the pacific? Why not… India? The Indian Ocean, South and North Atlantic are much more fun for teh Japanese fleet: ANd when they strike there with two Inf, it is much more probable that these two Infs are not instantly killed in a retaliation attack,as forces are thin there (Asia/Africa).
@Dirt:
In 1HBB I’ll sink the UK Med BB in a heart beat. In 2HBB it’s risky. Think about it: would you go after the UK sz fleet on G2, with or without the UK BB in it?
@Dirt:
But you don’t go after UK sz in G2 anyway, with or without the BB. That’s why it may be better to concentrate on the UK sz on G1 and ignore the Med BB to reduce plane losses.
Then, why the question first? A british BB in the North sea can beef up any british attack on EE, Norway, Karelia quite a bit. I would not like that.
To fight the british Med BB, i would use the german Med BB, plus something to increase my odds of winning. Then one or two hit does not really make such a difference. (I like taking Gibraltar and put some more (like two) Infs to the African east coast, to prevent an initial US landing there.)
