Poll: Bids for Spring 1942, 2nd Ed.

[Hobbes]

Hello all,

Several players have expressed the need for the Allies to have a bid on Spring 1942, 2nd Ed. for reasons of game balance. I personally haven’t felt the need for it so far but I’m curious to see what may be the most ‘common’ bids, please feel free to add suggestions to where to  place them (1 UK infantry on Egypt, 1 artillery on Caucasus, etc.).

For an explanation of what are bids and the process work, check this thread.

[texasranger97]

8 so USA can build a dd and save her fleet in the atlantic and save africa
(its the 1942 version operation torch was in 1942)

[Sean.C]

My son usually wants to play Allies, and i was thinking about giving him between 6-10 bid.  At least one unit in Egypt so he can hold Africa on G1.

[oztea]

Or “victory cities can scramble one fighter”

That solves a lot of the problems in the game for the allies, without giving them any more pieces.

• US fleet on the east coast has a better defense
• UK fleet near England is more survivable.

[Hobbes]

@oztea:

Or “victory cities can scramble one fighter”

That solves a lot of the problems in the game for the allies, without giving them any more pieces.

• US fleet on the east coast has a better defense
• UK fleet near England is more survivable.

This house rule also adds more problems for the Allies during the initial rounds: Germany can also scramble 1 fighter to protect its transport on the Baltic or its Med fleet, basically any of its boats near Paris/Berlin/Rome and Japan also benefits from it to protect transports against bombers on SZs 60/61/62. You’d have to put a limit of 1 fighter per SZ as well, otherwise you’d be able to scramble 2 fighters on the Baltic if the Germans have Leningrad as well.

[Mallery29]

Wow, what a desparity…6 vs 2…I could understand if somebody voted for the lowest bid.  Plausible complaint.  But the people that put 7-9 down are most likely playing a KGF strat.  With the seazones the way they are, this is understandable, but not needed.  I think a KJF strat w/no bid is sufficient to defeat the axis.  We made a tactical error with Russia (forgot to move the AAA forward) and had really really bad dice with the Russians…but Japan only had one unit left in Asia (after R3) and the US was ready to hit Borneo or the Phillipines (I would have hit Borneo to enable for a next US hit of EI).  Granted, Japan’s buys were not optimal, but they weren’t bad either.

I think if you going to go for a KGF strat, you may want to hit the SZ61 (CV and FTR, land FTR in Schezwan add Russian inf as well),Borneo(CA,2inf/trans), and Solomons(SS/CA/2inf/Trans) to buy India time.  But I haven’t really put much effort in putting forth a KGF strat.  So I’m probably just spewing poo.

[Hobbes]

@Mallery29:

I think if you going to go for a KGF strat, you may want to hit the SZ61 (CV and FTR, land FTR in Schezwan add Russian inf as well),Borneo(CA,2inf/trans), and Solomons(SS/CA/2inf/Trans) to buy India time.  But I haven’t really put much effort in putting forth a KGF strat.  So I’m probably just spewing poo.

Borneo is a good option, another may be to drop more units in Africa to make sure the Germans don’t get Egypt (or retake it on UK1, if you haven’t moved the Soviet fighter there).
The German player then either sends more units from Europe to Africa (usually a waste) or the Med Fleet is rendered almost useless and ready to be sunk next turn.

[oztea]

Bid 6 for allies, US sub in the East Coast sea zone.

Low ball bid that gives you the best shot at winning.

[oztea]

Well a scramble rule would swing both ways. And Germany could only double scramble the Baltic if captures Leningrad (which it usually does)

I think the scramble rule would give a slight nudge to the allies more than the Axis, who aren’t really on defense for the first few turns.

[Mallery29]

If you can hold Russia for 5-6 turns and you go KJF, no bid is required.  If you can’t contain Japan in 5-6 turns, then you are making poor Allied choices (10-12IPC for Japan a turn).  Russia will fall, but the Japan threat is neutralized.  Germany can’t hold on to 2-3 continents.

[Hobbes]

@Mallery29:

If you can hold Russia for 5-6 turns and you go KJF, no bid is required.  If you can’t contain Japan in 5-6 turns, then you are making poor Allied choices (10-12IPC for Japan a turn).  Russia will fall, but the Japan threat is neutralized.  Germany can’t hold on to 2-3 continents.

This basically was the logic behind my KJF strat for 1st Edition: Russia holds Germany on Europe with UK help, UK eliminates Germany from Africa and helps keeping in check Japan’s advance on Asia (but no Indian IC, since it’s usually too vulnerable at the beginning of the game). Meanwhile the US goes 100% to Pacific Fleet and tries to grab East Indies/Borneo and build 2 ICs there.
If Japan is kicked out of Asia, UK has Africa secured and the US is dropping ground units on Asia, then it shouldn’t matter if Russia falls, since the Allies should still be ahead on the income count and Germany has to face 2 Allies playing together.
This is the same logic that keeps the game going if Moscow and Berlin fell on the same turn to the Allies and Japan - it becomes impossible for Japan to liberate Berlin and eventually the Allies will overcome the Japanese and liberate Russia.
The problem (like on 2nd Ed) is Germany grabbing Moscow quicker than expected.

[Mallery29]

The key here is the same I believe as it was in 42.1…it’s all about the EUS fleet.  This fleet is the pivotal fleet to turn the tide.  If Germany half a$s the attack or fails with both subs, the DD/2Trans swing to the Pac and now the US doesn’t have to spend 22 on three ships that are absolutely vital to springboarding for KJF.  So German players, if you want to frak up majorly, leave the EUS fleet alone.

If you keep loading UK FTRs every turn, you can continue to buy time for Russia/India.  Every 2 FTRs UK adds is possibly another turn Germany is going to have to load that front line.

[Hobbes]

@Mallery29:

The key here is the same I believe as it was in 42.1…it’s all about the EUS fleet.  This fleet is the pivotal fleet to turn the tide.  If Germany half a$s the attack or fails with both subs, the DD/2Trans swing to the Pac and now the US doesn’t have to spend 22 on three ships that are absolutely vital to springboarding for KJF.  So German players, if you want to frak up majorly, leave the EUS fleet alone.

If you keep loading UK FTRs every turn, you can continue to buy time for Russia/India.  Every 2 FTRs UK adds is possibly another turn Germany is going to have to load that front line.

I usually never sent the EUS transport to the Pacific but used them to land on Algeria on US1 (and the Germans sink them on US2). That either delays the Germans on Africa or those forces can actually be used to liberate Africa rather than the UK.
I like the UK’s Royal Air Force Strategy (I just made the name up), also seems to work well, buy planes at the UK and ground units at India but at one point you need boots on the ground in Europe.

[Hobbes]

@Cromwell_Dude:

Do Answer:

I’ve seen quite a few posts on here about the German fleet attacking both the British fleet by the British Isles and the American fleet off the East Coast at the same time. I’m curious how that has all played out. Statistically, how often have you been able to destroy both fleets? And, what was left of your ships after a counter-offensive, assuming you move your entire German Baltic fleet to reinforce what’s left after your attack on the British fleet? And, if you don’t move your entire Baltic fleet on G1, what were the responses by the Allies and their effects?

Haven’t seen neither attack fail so far. On SZ11 (EUS) the odds are 88% for a German win (transports sunk), so you’ll see that attack missing once in a while but about the same occurance as the German Battleship losing against the UK destroyer on SZ17.
On SZ7 (UK) the Germans have either build a carrier or the cruiser was moved to attacked SZ7, leaving the transport defenseless. The Germans can bring so many stuff to SZ7 that unless the player makes a serious blunder or the dice go crazy (>1% odds or something), so usually there shouldn’t be any surprises there. And if the Germans bring 2 subs, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters, then the Allies can submerge the Russian sub right away and prevent losing that unit.
The Allied response is go either hit any remaining subs on SZ7/11 using the UK destroyer on SZ10 - then it really depends on KJF or not.

[Mallery29]

1. UK BB and EUS fleet should be hit.  The UK BB should go down no problem (1SS/2FTR/Bomber at most should do it).  Russian sub will submerge unless this is a light attack for some reason.  EUS can survive, but if you send both SS, you have the 2v1 advantage as Germany.  While Germany can hit both DDs, why risk having the Transports survive?  The lone UK DD/Trans will not hurt Germany too much…they can go after your subs, but I’d rather deal with the UK DD, than the US DD, FTR, Bomber…(granted, the UK Bomber can hit the SS w/the DD, but now your UK bomber is WAY out of  position.

2. To attack the Cruiser/Transport in the Baltic, I’ll just send the two FTRS (and the Bomber if can’t SBR) to hit it.  Both FTRs land in WRus to protect the Soviets (with next move headed towards India on UK2 as second wave of 2FTRs will take their place on UK2) and the Bomber should land in Caucus.  This gives you flex to attack anywhere with the Bomber (Germany, Italy, Japan stack on Burma).  If you really don’t want to risk the UK forces, you can always use the Russsian SS and a FTR to hit the CA (if the CA is alone, maybe not so if one SS still in Baltic).

3. In response to Hobbes comments:  I don’t play VC, so I don’t care if Russia collapses, as long as they can hold out till G5-6 for a KJF.  I agree you need troops in Europe, but by UK3, India should be protected (and random remaining Soviet help in Asia) and with a large US invasion force at the Solomons ready to do the nasty on US3 (the DD/2Trans with a US2 Trans buy will give me 3 Trans to move to Solomons while I can either use the one trans at the Solomons to either strike Borneo/Phillipines or go back to WUS for more troops (with additional trans buy US3…let the shucking begin!).  If this was VC, not sure how much it would change things, but the Phillipines would defintely fall before Moscow under this move. Â

[Mallery29]

Have seen the EUS DD survive both German subs, and now have seen the Med DD hold off the BB 4 times….frak ya Med DD!

[Hobbes]

@Mallery29:

Have seen the EUS DD survive both German subs, and now have seen the Med DD hold off the BB 4 times….frak ya Med DD!

The more you play, the more the results will tend to follow the theoretical odds. The unlucky (and very frustrating for some) part is when the failed attacks always happen to you when you playing the Axis, but that’s how dice work.
It’s also a matter of player perception - you are always more prone to remember a failed attack (because of its rarity) or a series of failed attacks than to remember ALL of the successful ones. So if you want to count the failures you should also count the victories as well, otherwise the series of failed attacks will just keep nagging on your head everytime you play and affect your strategy.

[Mallery29]

The funny thing is with the BB failing to beat the DD is that Germany will only have 3 units (the inf/tank/Bomber) and you get an excellent chance to eliminate it with ease especially if you have the Russian FTR there.

I did have the UK CV in 42.1 (which I used to kill the defenseless Japanese transport) take down a BB/FTR as well….that made my day!

[Hobbes]

No bid still trumps every other choice.

One question for the players who voted for Allied bid: did you consider the move of the Soviet fighter to Egypt on R1 when voting?

[kaufschtick]

We played our 1st two games yesterday and the night before, both Axis wins. Still too early for me to say with any confidence about the game balance though. It’s a new game, with a  new set up and it’s going to take quite a few playings to exhaust all the ideas I saw from our first 2 games before I can start to make a call on game balance.

Certainly, reading the experiences of others in their games on here is something I watch closely until I feel I’ve seen enough myself through actually playing the game. My drinking partner Tim & myself logged about 150 actual playing hours on PAC40 before we sent in a final verdict on that one (OOB). We wound up playing about 18-19 hours the past two days. Another 5-6 game sessions like that usually lays it all out, one way or the other.

To be honest, the VC conditions seem doable in this version. We played total victory (which we almost always do), but the 9/10 VC conditions seem to offer another route to pursue.