HOW TO PLAY AS THE ALLIES PROPERLY

[Axisplaya]

@questioneer:

Things I’ve learned:
18inf, 2AA should go towards Moscow, better than Korea.

Finally, you came to reason !  :wink:

[Yavid]

Ok i’m realizing that my hard line opinion that the war is won and lost in Russia is alittle outdated now. For Germany the war is won and lost in Russia. Now Japan has choices to be made.

[questioneer]

@Axisplaya:

@questioneer:

Things I’ve learned:
18inf, 2AA should go towards Moscow, better than Korea.

Finally, you came to reason !  :wink:

yeah, had to test it out a few times.  US really doesn’t have the time to advance that far.  I mean they can take Korea and build an IC but you will neglect other needs on the board.  I tried the fighter shuck too, again I can get 12 planes there but then you weaken your ACs and Pac fleets.

Play is not exausted for the 18inf to Korea- it is playable- for example- in a Sealion it will be somewhat effective- Russia can afford to do this, US however then can’t.

I think the strategy is open to a few tweeks, but in the long-run they just don’t seem to payoff as well as having the ground units in Moscow for defense or counterattack.

What is seems common for US is to invest a good portion of their income in the Pacific then rd3 on mostly Europe.  Stack and protect Hawaii and ANZAC and advance on the Euro side.  Tricky to do b/c they are logistically and economically stretched to the max.

[seth4god]

@questioneer:

@Axisplaya:

@questioneer:

Things I’ve learned:
18inf, 2AA should go towards Moscow, better than Korea.

Finally, you came to reason !�  :wink:

yeah, had to test it out a few times.  US really doesn’t have the time to advance that far.  I mean they can take Korea and build an IC but you will neglect other needs on the board.  I tried the fighter shuck too, again I can get 12 planes there but then you weaken your ACs and Pac fleets.

Play is not exausted for the 18inf to Korea- it is playable- for example- in a Sealion it will be somewhat effective- Russia can afford to do this, US however then can’t.

I think the strategy is open to a few tweeks, but in the long-run they just don’t seem to payoff as well as having the ground units in Moscow for defense or counterattack.

What is seems common for US is to invest a good portion of their income in the Pacific then rd3 on mostly Europe.  Stack and protect Hawaii and ANZAC and advance on the Euro side.  Tricky to do b/c they are logistically and economically stretched to the max.

It’s worth keeping them there IMO. I like to send 6 inf back to either reinforce moscow, but more often hook around Mongolia and help out the Chinese. The others I keep somewhere in between Bury/Sak/Amur depending on Japanese threats to that stack. If I see an opportunity I’ll take Korea and/or Manchuria, either in force or with a stray dude. Taking Korea in force or reinforcing a US take allows you to land a buttload of planes there. Bombers from the west coast can land there as well. Suddenly anything Japan builds in sz6 is under threat from a massive air strike. Japan will probably do one of four things.
A) Keep sz6 stacked to protect builds; potentially allowing the allies better freedom of movement down south where the money is
B) Will build naval on a minor elsewhere; meaning those minors aren’t building ground pounders and that means less pressure on China/India
C) No naval builds or perhaps just subs; meaning Japan’s fleet will be short blockers and weak to air attack without dd fodder.
D) Japan will build up an invasion force/shift ground units in asia north to remove that threat; more units gearing towards Korea means fewer that India/China have to face and the longer they’ll be around.

You can always fly your air out of the danger zone if you don’t like the odds or aren’t ready to lose all that air. I know in our game I was constantly worried about sz6 and I think at one point you were positioned to fly in 10-12 air into Korea and that really would’ve changed my deployments/buys. Instead half of them continued on towards Moscow and the others refilled your empty cvs.

Anything that can relieve pressure off of India/China is a good thing in my book. It’s not something I do every game though. Sometimes I might grab Korea once and then pull back. Sometimes Japan’s positioning is so strong that he can afford to finish/neutralize both China & India and still deal with the Russians. So you have to play it by ear and be ready to fall back if the situation warrants it. The threat of that stack alone can force Japan to keep troops north just in case. And at the very least it dissuades Japan from picking off Russian terr knowing they won’t get very far without a massive troop commitment.

[questioneer]

Seth,

The goal should be to relieve pressure off of India and maybe China some.  The problem is that the “Korea stack” let’s call it, doesn’t serve that purpose to the fullest capacity that you would like.  In our game, I could have kept shucking planes 12-18 over to Korea- problem is that US is spending too much money on harassing Japan or even trying to sack it when the urgency is opening another front on the Euro side.

It was a budget decision I had to make so I cut it off.  Now a mix of bombers along with the planes could be interesting, but planes and bombers might be able to be shucked over through Gib–>Egypt–>Moscow faster- especially since in most games barring allowance of Sealion by the Brits Cairo is stacked and in safe hands (must do Taranto of course).  With this route, you also threaten many more targets with your planes and bombers on the way to protecting Moscow.  On the Pac side you are just harassing Japan.

All Japan needs to do is take India (which it can by rounds 4-6), stack capital and make and send all aircraft to Euro Side to bomb etc. and go for the Euro win.  Japan can be very flexible (movement-wise) in that ANZAC and Hawaii can be taken quickly after India if the US is a little lazy in mov’ts and buys- thus getting the early 6VC steals.

Its fun to see Japan sweat a little bit from the Korea inf/plane stack but in reality there is really nothing to sweat about.  The game is still a Europe win game for the Axis with a flexible Pac win if US gets a little lax.  Japan’s job is really to meet up with Germany/Italy and unite.  This has been the basic strategy for the Axis in every AAgame since Classic- hasn’t really changed much- just more tts, szs and units.

I think the “Korea stack” still has some playable nuggets to be discovered yet, but I don’t see it as a “winnable” strategy anymore.  I think there are just better ways to do the same kinds of things one wants out of the “Korea stack”.

Its just like Tobruk vs. Taranto.  Tobruk is playable, its just Taranto just does the same thing but its better in the longrun.  Taranto would’ve made a big difference in our game.  I’ll have to try a Taranto with the Korea plane shuck one time and see what happens.

The fact is, w/o the bid, the game’s strategy is starting to look more linear now and standard and it looks like Allies need the dice more that the Axis.  I hate to say it, but Cow, for the most-part is right.

[Rhey]

pffft I give up :p I never even won a game as allies on these forums… Even if you slow down the axis, they still manage to outproduce you and when India falls, Russia can’t handle to fight both germany and Japan…

at around what round are you guys usually able to turn the initiative in the game to the allies?

[Axisplaya]

@Rhey:

pffft I give up :p I never even won a game as allies on these forums… Even if you slow down the axis, they still manage to outproduce you and when India falls, Russia can’t handle to fight both germany and Japan…

at around what round are you guys usually able to turn the initiative in the game to the allies?

Playing on these forums will make you a better player INCREDIBLY FASTER than playing just with your regulars in live games.
Open some maps, study a little some games in this forum where the allies won, that will help you much more than a few advices and tips that some players could give you here.

:wink:

[Cow]

Depends on who you play not so much if you play by forum triplea or live games. How you play the game does not equate to who you play.

Yes Rhey axis can quickly get an income advantage especially if middle east does not hold up or if london falls on G3 or if japan gets solves the china / siberian inf issue while taking india and grabbing dutch isles… the axis income advantage can be felt.

Russia can get +19 from africa. tricky to keep russia alive while stopping japan from winning.

I prefer to go full pacific with usa, minus R1 purchase. Carriers are much more powerful now compared to all previous editions, in fact attacking carrier 2x fighter which costs 36 ipc requires more than 36 ipc to kill 2 dd 2 bomber or w/e avenue you choose.

So sinking a fleet costs more money typically. Carrier cheese, Russia’s NO cheese, convoy sz 97 cheese, and fly fighters into russia. Cheese your way to victory, it is the only way!

I honestly do not like playing the allies, because they are forced into playing “the income game” unless you are doing KJF then you are rushing to shut down japan / take islands. with japan being a non factor you can turn around and do big drops to save london/egypt. That is the more aggressive play, since you don’t need russia to win… it works really well if japan waits till round 3 to declare war… he becomes so far behind in the pacific and usa smothers him out then you can use india to wall off egypt and germany/italy stand alone. Hell usually you can fly 8 fighters to russia in time from japan sea zone to a china spot to russia.

The better axis players have a strong pacific game plan though so it is really tough for allies.

[Gargantua]

I’m sorry but I love playing as the allies, it’s all defense, cock block moves, cheap shots, and crazy possibilities.

DELAY, DELAY, DELAY, - WIN! :D :D :D :D

[Rhey]

@Gargantua:

I’m sorry but I love playing as the allies, it’s all defense, cock block moves, cheap shots, and crazy possibilities.

DELAY, DELAY, DELAY, - WIN! :D :D :D :D

haha yeah that’s what I’m going through… but here it is delay, delay, delay, - lose… how do you go from delaying to turning it all around into a win? :D

[Gargantua]

By maintaining economic control.

1. Neuter Italy.  Without a north african/middleeast campaign OR sea lion, the axis will never outproduce europe economically.

2. Stack Australia, Hawaii, with ground units and planes.  play PREVENT against the Japanese victory,  and when you can, pick apart their navies, or islands.  If you’ve delayed the capture of India post J4, you are doing great.  with China, keep your stack out of range of japanese planes, until UK is in the war.  By going north, then coming back down south.  (Unless you get specific oppurtunities to take back yunnan)

3.  FAT build Russia Early,  men, men, men, men, some more men,  a piece of artillery,  and if you get SBR’d later, add in tanks as needed.  Make sure you put together a mobile middle east force, that can activate Persia the INSTANT you are at war, by coming through Kazakstan.  meeting infantry that drop down to NW Persia,  conquering IRAQ the next turn, and supporting England.

4.  Give the axis room to expand, where into less valueable, undefendable areas,  but keep them contained.  Focus on detroying transports. and ground units.  Find ways to negate the ability of the axis to use their airforce,  by either hiding, or travelling in numbers that can’t be attacked.  If that means giving up certain oppurtunities - do just that.

5. Starve them out.  Without economic control, the axis will peter out.  You will simply be putting more units on the board, they WILL lose.

Last… Build a trump card. Have bombers available in LONDON/CAIRO - in range of Moscow,  6 or 7 maybe, aside from causing all kinds of problems, they are an instant hit soak trump defence. You can use them to either destroy a small axis stack, or stop a final axis capital grab.  Same goes in the pacific, from honolulu to queensland.

As the allies, Don’t worry about how you’re going to “win”.  Just make sure you don’t lose.  It’s exactly like tic-tac-toe, except the axis loses when there are no more moves left.

[Gargantua]

Also, read questioneer’s comments earlier, he had some really good notes.

Specifically his comment about watching Japanese Transports in the Pacific.  There’s no reason to let your ANZAC/HONOLULU Stacks get stupid, they just have to be enough to hold off Japanese Transport capacity + Airforce.

[Rhey]

damned got screwed again… even I stacked Russia, I can’t hold off the germans and it seems like the western allies can’t intervene quick enough to relieve pressure of them…

Yeah I read through the whole thread but there are so many different scenarios… you gotta invest a lot in the pacific to keep the japanese out of range of russia and letting the brits deal alone with germany and italy in the meds is simply brutal :D

it would be easier if the US gets another 20IPC’s extra to spend xD

[questioneer]

@Rhey:

damned got screwed again… even I stacked Russia, I can’t hold off the germans and it seems like the western allies can’t intervene quick enough to relieve pressure of them…

Yeah I read through the whole thread but there are so many different scenarios… you gotta invest a lot in the pacific to keep the japanese out of range of russia and letting the brits deal alone with germany and italy in the meds is simply brutal :D

it would be easier if the US gets another 20IPC’s extra to spend xD

No, as Allies you have to be very shrewd with your buys and mov’ts

[questioneer]

@Cow:

So sinking a fleet costs more money typically. Carrier cheese, Russia’s NO cheese, convoy sz 97 cheese, and fly fighters into russia. Cheese your way to victory, it is the only way!

LOL that’s pretty actually- The only way you win as Allies is to milk it- don’t be ashamed to go collect your gov’t cheese.

[Cow]

Lots of allies players go KJF and leave russia to the wolves. when russia dies then usa makes an atlantic fleet to hole egypt up… it is a viable strategy.

[questioneer]

In one of my games, my opponent went J2 with a G3 Barbarossa later.  I’m Allies.  My Europe side looks solid.  Moscow is besieged but stacked with 65inf, 17tank and a few arts and planes.  Egypt is rock solid- 25 land units- inf, tanks etc. with a 3-4loaded ACs.  Germany has had to split its airforce and spend helping Italy not get invaded.  I can build and ship fighters right from Cairo.

Problem is, Japan is winning the standoff in the Pacific b/c I got a little lazy on the buys there- now Japan is threatening the 6VC win- ANZAC is stacked decently but Hawaii is in danger.  It pretty close, but odds say he’s got about a 60%

Win or lose I’m still happy b/c:

I didn’t do Taranto (I did Tobruk) which would have made my Italy threat much better.
I know how to stack and secure Cairo.  This basically stops or stalls the Euro win.  Build a Minor IC rd 1 or 2 and stack with tanks and later planes to ship to Moscow later.
18inf, 2AA seems much better going towards Moscow- nothing like a stack of infantry relief in rounds 6-7.
Evacuate India when doom is near.  Save that stack of units for Egypt/Moscow or even Africa protection.  Make sure ANZAC is stacked though along with Hawaii (learned that this game.)- otherwise lights out.

I do say I enjoy playing Allies b/c they are difficult.  Germany is simply crush crush.  Italy turtles after Taranto.  Japan is complicated but if played right can be a monster that needs to be tamed by the US.

Garg is right.  The Allies can cock block and become very tactical.  Scratching, clawing and fighting for every key tt that will DELAY, DELAY, DELAY.

Cow is also right- NOTHING sharpens your Allied play like a very good Japan player.  With proper play on both sides, if the Axis win its b/c of a good Japan player IMHO.  Germany and Italy’s strategy seems straight forward for the most part- granted there are some good tactical stuff on the Euro side but compared to Japan its basic.

[ModernFun94]

If I’m right, if Japan declares war on Uk then the U.S. is allowed to go to war before the end of A3, so would you want to try to anger Japan to go to war and bring U.S. in as soon as possible.

[Gargantua]

The sooner you are at war in Global the better.

But don’t go declaring UK1 on Japan, because it’ll be US 4, before the Americans can do anything.

[Noll]

@Gargantua:

The sooner you are at war in Global the better.

But don’t go declaring UK1 on Japan, because it’ll be US 4, before the Americans can do anything.

Shut Up and Play Napolenic!  :-D