Check this link out mate:
German strategy
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@micayla:
Hi, I am wondering what options are available to the German player under the following cicumstances.
– no Russia Restricted
– no Axis advantage.First turn the Russians attack norway and load up on karelia all men. In addition the Germans have no fleet left in the Baltic.
In addition they pool 6 guys and 1 tank in the the interior of their country not attacking Japan with it. The placement of these units is 1 territory inland from the sea.Assuming that England and America will fly their planes to Karelia what to you suggest doing?
I am thinking of buying all men and a transport?
All men and a transport is pretty good, or I might even buy all infantry. In fact, in that game I would probably buy 100% infantry for Germany the whole game, and hope I can hold out until Japan takes Russia.
I am assuming you didn’t get to bid? What I really suggest doing is pointing out to your friends that the game is completely unfair for the Axis with no Russia Restricted, no Axis Advantage, and no bidding. Point them to one of the club websites, where the average bid in a game like that is in the 20’s, i.e. Germany will get an extra 20+ IPCs worth of units to start the game with, wherever they like - just to make the game fair. If you did get to bid then ignore that rant and don’t forget to put a few men in Africa.
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If micayla & friends are playing w/ the above mentioned rules, they may not have played that many games, and so therefore, Germany might have a chance. I would suggest massing your INF in Eastern Europe (to a lesser extent, Ukraine as well) and keep buying whatever USSR buys–just more of it! When USSR attacks Eastern Europe, try to crush them in the counterattack! Don’t forget to destroy the Allied fleet in the North Sea and Mediterranean T1–then be sure to land all planes in Western Europe ASAP! Africa will be important–keep putting a few troops there until the Allies destroy your fleet. On T1 a TR is a pretty sound purchase if you can protect it, but you should quickly switch to INF/ARM for the rest of the game. Don’t let the Allies in Western Europe, but use only the minimum # of INF for the purpose–don’t forget UK & USA often act in tandem here.
Your Japanese ally should attack the Soviets as quickly as possible–when most of the Russian East is taken you will be surprised at how rapid your progress will be!My friends and I are very conservative with the rules and for a long time we played with just straight 2nd-edition, like you. Then we added “Submerging Subs” and that little rules adjustment seriously improved our games–and made all of us more willing to adopt other rules changes when the time came. If you find your games are getting less enjoyable due to the Allies winning all the time, try adding just one “tweak” or 2–it will help, and players may be more willing to adopt a small change than a big one. “Submerging Subs” really helped us…
Ozone27
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I have been playing this game for years under no RR and no bid no axis advantage etc. My brother has finally figured out how beat me using the Allies as I used to win often. Now it seems pointless. The fact is the Germans can never beat the Russians if you opponent is not brain dead. The closest I have come was a second round attack on Karelia with everything I had(6 tanks first purchase). Norway was gone ,no transport no subs etc. I used every plane and the bomber the antiaircraft gun and all. I even took my battleship and transport and invaded the territory between ukraine and moscow. This strategy will give you Karelia first turn if(Britain does not fly planes to Karelia). This means you leave England sea zone alone completely however you did kill the sub and the battleship in the med and the transport in eastern canada.
As far as Japan is concerned besides taking out the carrier on pearl harbor I believe their fleet is useless. It can be used to go after Africa but this takes 3-4 turns and if the Japs have not pressured the Russians the game is over. It only takes 2 turns before the British can have navy superiority in the English sea channel. The Germans can wipe it out the first turn but can not afford to replace it. If they buy planes the Russians will wipe you out. If they buy men then English victory is achieved. I believe my next strategy is to buy as many men as possible and 2 transports. I will not fight with my battleship as that will leave my newly bought 2 transports exposed. The real problem is that Japan can not get its’ fighters to Germany fast enough it takes 3 turns and you need them to hold Eastern Europe. Lets face it after the 2nd turn Germany has lost Ukraine and Norway and they are in a holding pattern. It takes Japan around 5 turns to get around Moscow if the opponent knows what they are doing. After this an attack on Germany via the Americans, British and Russians and the victory is sealed. My brother has just figured out how to beat me so he will not give in on these rules. Any opinions?
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The short answer? You guys should flip a coin every time you play to see who gets to play what side: after your brother plays as Axis a few times, he should be willing to tweak the rules somewhat. Playing w/ only 2 players decreases the amount of time it takes to need rules adjustments, but it will happen.
The long answer? Well, you need to switch strategies. Basically you are using an “offensive-type” strategy for Germany where you try to win straight off with a massive strike. That just won’t work using the rules you are using at your skill level. Try instead a more “long-term” approach: make inroads in Africa while building lots of INF and just concentrating on defending your territory while Japan eats away at USSR. You will find the Japanese fleet comes in extremely handy! Try making a naval move against Mexico or Alaska–it might draw the USAs attention away from Germany for a few turns. Try sailing your fleet thru the Suez or around South America to threaten the Allies in the Atlantic. Like WWII, A & A is a very Naval-oriented struggle; learn to use your navy more effectively than his–you will find that the Japanese navy is far from “useless”. And always push against Russia.
As far as rules changes–there are dozens of “standard” rules variations that are out there–chances are there is at least 1 you both can agree on. We started playing w/ “submerging subs” first and it worked out great–a plus is that it applies to both sides, but what it mainly does is give Germany an extra sub T1–that SUB can come in pretty handy…
Oh, and sink the UK fleet T1. I can’t stress this enough–there really is no better use of your planes.
Ozone27
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Sir Ozone is right again :)
TG Moses often tells me how much the Axis have the advantage in the mid-game, and for the most part, he is correct. With Germany, you do not want to risk too much, too early, except for the need to wipe out Her Majesty’s Navy on the first turn. Otherwise, you want to hold off against any sudden attacks and concentrate everything you have to Africa without leaving too much of Western Europe and Eastern Europe open. I forgot to mention, but holding Eastern Europe is a must for the Axis to win.
During this time, Japan should do everything she can in Asia to relieve pressure from Germany. Don’t be afraid to use the Japanese Navy to help gain control of New Zealand, Alaska, Australia, Hawaii, Madagascar, Egypt, or even Brazil! Like I said, the Axis victory is in the mid-game. What I like to do is hit Hawaii the first turn with the Japanese task force and slowly move westward, making sure to take over any islands along the pathway to Africa. Once I have made it to Africa, I can help the Germans make sure keep Africa firmly in their grasp, while the main Japanese Army marches into Russia to finish the game. :D
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I must admit my skill level does not approach superhuman. Japan’s purpose is to take away Russia’s economic power and eliminate as many men as possible resulting in either Russia pulling men out of Karelia or weakening it taking pressure of Germany. As to the strategies mentioned already I have tried them several times. Here are my points on these strategies and why they have failed for me. First let me say that my opponent is always the same person and not a dullard like myself.
Attack America
Can you really justify this? First you are taking men planes ships and everything else Japan needs to put pressure on the Russians. Even if you rolled the dice like Rainman sunk the Pacific fleet had no losses of your own to speak off landed in Western America, Canada, Alaska or Mexico it is a one turn Pythuric victory. Turn 2 the American’s wipe out your men and your navy is sitting off the coast of Western America with no men. What if you bought transports the first turn and then sail them over? These will not reach until turn 3 and then you have lost the game. The American simply needs to ignore your moves and wipe you out when you land while at the same time his fleet is in the English Channel and you still can not touch the unprotected transports he is buying. While this is going on you may have bought a factory and placed it in Asia some where. First the Russians can simply allow you to take one territory a turn by placing one man in each territory and letting you take it. Second they have 5 men and a tank that they could use to counterattack your stretched Asia contingent. They do not have to win all the have to do is buy a few turns and the game is over. All the Americans have to do is buy and aircraft carrier in eastern USA with 2 planes add in the one from pearl harbor if it has not been sunk bring the battleship from western USA over to eastern America. Turn 2 buy transports/men by turn 3 you have aircraft carrier planes/battleship/men/tanks in position around England. The German’s can not touch the American’s really. Couple this with whatever the British buy and you are finished. Once the Allies maintain naval superiority in the English Channel the game is over. This is achieved via turn 3 at the latest. Assuming you choose to sink the British fleet the first turn you have bought yourself some time until turn 3. This is the most plausible scenario and I have deviated from this only once via a 2nd round attack on Karelia coupled with no activity against the British to save my planes for the attack - this almost worked by the way. The fact remains if you use your fleet to do anything but sink America’s fleet you are wasting time and money Japan does not have.
Attacking America is tantamount as giving up. If I was the Allied player I would refuse to continue playing the game as it is already over.Defensible Germany
This seems to be the only realistic answer to this game but how long can this player hold out. You have a few situations to contend with. No baltic fleet, no men plane or tank in Norway as the Rusians have blasted it. No men in Ukraine as you have pulled them back to Eastern Europe. 15 men 2 russian planes 2 british planes on Karlelia at the end of turn1. At the end of turn 2 you have 25 men in Karelia facing you with 4 planes no men in Moscow as it does not have to be defended yet. The Russian player has placed 1 man on any territories between Japan and Moscow and does not have to defend Moscow until turn 4 or 5. After turn 3 he can stop buying men for Karelia and start going after the Japanese via blocking measures. This strategy takes away the Blitz strategy. So here you are turn 3 a fleet sitting off of your west coast 25 men and now the russian is the one buying the tanks in Karelia Japan still does not have enough men in Asia to overpower the Russians and their forces are not occupying and territory adjacent to Moscow. This game is over did I miss anything? One point on Africa if you use your battleship to attack Egypt you will capture Egypt however this also means you can not buy any transports that turn. If you do the British bomber will wipe them out and land in Gibraltar. This means you use your Battleship to shuffle men from Italy to Africa as protection. Lets face it you have a choice of buying all men( no africa after first turn and no planes to defend against allied navy) or a combination of these leaving you exposed to the Russian attack via turn 3 or 4 ending the game.) Eastern Europe is now Karelia and Karelia is Eastern EuropeI repeat again the Japanese navy is completely useless. It can not get to Med in time and it can not invade the Americas and hold it as the supply lines are too long. The American player can simply ignore the Japanese. Who cares if you take new Zealand, Australia, Hawaii. As soon as you stick you players anywhere else the American’s wipe you out. As far as distracting the Americans this is a fallacy. They are distracting you.
Again, does anybody know a plausible Axis strategy with no RR. I can not think of one. If the Germans hold out until turn 5 this should be considered an axis victory. As for playing the game with the Russia Restricted mode this will level the playing field enough for the time being.
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“Again, does anybody know a plausible Axis strategy with no RR. I can not think of one. If the Germans hold out until turn 5 this should be considered an axis victory.”
Start playing with RR, against good Allied players you can never win. I don’t care if your skills are superhuman. Unless the dice always fall in your favor, RR is the way to go.
“Can you really justify this? First you are taking men planes ships and everything else Japan needs to put pressure on the Russians.”
The best way to tie up US resources that would normally go to the USSR push is by bluffing the US player that you might invade WUSA. Also, by landing in Alaska, you force USA to react to you or risk losing 2 IPCs a turn. Hawaii is important because it takes away the amount of ftrs USA can commit to the Pearl Harbor counteroffensive.
“What if you bought transports the first turn and then sail them over?”
This is a stupid move, and it’ll end up in an Allied victory right away. At most you want 1 or 2 transports operating anywhere outside of the Sea of Japan. However, by investing on 1 transport to take over islands in the Pacific, you can make the return investment very profitable.
“All the Americans have to do is buy and aircraft carrier in eastern USA with 2 planes add in the one from pearl harbor if it has not been sunk bring the battleship from western USA over to eastern America. Turn 2 buy transports/men by turn 3 you have aircraft carrier planes/battleship/men/tanks in position around England. The German’s can not touch the American’s really.”
That is why you need the Luftwaffe to be a constant threat to the Allies in the Atlantic. You force them to buy a carrier w/ planes to protect their fleet. Those IPCs would’ve otherwise gone into building more inf and more trns, which would finish the Germans off more quickly.
“This is achieved via turn 3 at the latest. Assuming you choose to sink the British fleet the first turn you have bought yourself some time until turn 3.”
That extra time is time needed for Germany to station forces at EE and WE to deal with any Allied landings. Holding Africa for an extra turn is always a must.
“The fact remains if you use your fleet to do anything but sink America’s fleet you are wasting time and money Japan does not have.”
What do you expect them to do, sit around and do nothing? At least I can send those ships to the Mediterrian to the German fleet – this is if I choose a “half Pearl Harbor” on J1.
“One point on Africa if you use your battleship to attack Egypt you will capture Egypt however this also means you can not buy any transports that turn. If you do the British bomber will wipe them out and land in Gibraltar.”
Usually you want to build only 1 trns, by building 2 and sending 4 inf to Africa, you seriously compromise the Eastern Front.
“Lets face it you have a choice of buying all men”
That is what the Germans should be doing the entire game.
“Who cares if you take new Zealand, Australia, Hawaii. As soon as you stick you players anywhere else the American’s wipe you out. As far as distracting the Americans this is a fallacy. They are distracting you.”
IPC count matters a lot, especially if you are looking for a EC victory many rely on. Distracting the Americans is key. 1 trns is enough to accomplish this. (if you support them with BBs)
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mikaylah, I am trying to help you–calm down!
Yes w/ no RR, you are at a disadvantage: but the disadvantage is not as great as you think: all RR essentially does is buy you 1 turn without Soviet attack: they will attack next turn, most definitely.
If the Allies are ignoring Japan, then Japan’s #1 priority is to take advantage by making a super-PITA of herself. The Japanese Navy is not useless it is a potential major threat if you can get it to the battle area.
Attacking North America is intended as nothing but a distraction–if your enemy will see right through it, then don’t bother! But many USA players (admittedly not experts) will freak out when Japanese troops land on their territory. This helps because it takes a little of the pressure off Germany.
If you have just 1 IC and 3 TR in Asia, you can put 6 INF 3 ARM on the mainland every turn. Believe me, that will put a LOT of pressure on USSR.
Sounds like you are losing a lot of men T1 in Asia–this may be whats causing USSR to be able to protect itself using only 1 INF in each territory. If so, try not attacking so many different places T1 in favor of cancentrating your forces and reducing major resistance–this may enable you to go on the offensive against USSR earlier, with more men.
Post a detailed report of what your enemy is doing worldwide on T1-2. You will get a horde of great strategists picking the moves apart within a few hours I guarantee (A & A players like nothing better than foiling other players’ clever strategies :D )–you will no doubt get some good pointers as to some countermoves.
Ozone27
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Holy, SUD all your posts on strategy are tight!
Nice…… :lol:
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Yeah, SUD has a tendency to do that :)
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Exactly my point! mikaylah: give us all a detailed report of the worldwide situation T1 (w/ RR or not) and there are people on this site who can help you.
BTW SUD–looks like mikaylah is playing both Germany & Japan. He/she might need some pointers re: Japanese strategies for T1/throughout the game. I am making no headway…
Ozone27
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The idea to attack norway/finland after the Russians have wiped this territory out may be worth looking into. I am not sure I want to risk losing German planes for Russian tanks as this is not worth it. The only thing I can imagine doing with the Japanese fleet is sailing it to Africa however this will take too long. The only way I can think of putting quick pressure on the Russians and to remove this blocking pattern technique is by blitzing through neutral territories and paying the fine via Manchuria. This may get me more Russian Territories quicker.
I can not remember the exact placement of the Russians after turn 1 but it goes something like this. They bought 8 infantry. They attacked Finland with tanks men and plane just enough to take it usually they just the tanks left in Finland. At the end of their turn they place all the men in Karelia they bought put 1 guy in Caucus and none in Moscow. In the east they did not attack, they assembled all 5 or 6 men and 1 tank in the territory north of Manchuria 1 in from the sea not sure what the name is.
For me the key to the game from the Allied point of view is learning how to attack Germany in tandem. The Allies have the opportunity to concentrate on one territory. For example Western Europe. The British can hit it with their planes and a men. If they lose all they have to do is weaken the German and then the Americans can clean them out. The British can buy an aircraft carrier and then the Americans can fly planes on it to protect it all in the same round. When the German comes up he can not stop this this happens the first turn.
I believe a possible different scenario may help this game and it may be out there. How about being able to play Germany and Japan at the same time. Same thing for the allies and having the axis go first. This would take this advantage away from the allies.
As far as having Russia go first for me I am not sure this is going to do much in the end. This would result in not losing the German plane in Norway. I may attack Karelia as I will never have this opportunity again. The British fleet would get sunk and I would have more planes as the sub and transport would take the hits for me. I would certainly go after Africa however the same situation arises via the Americans and the British it may take a turn longer to happen.
Regardless if RR is in place doing anything more than sinking the carrier in pearl habor is out in my opinion. My opponent is well versed in these strategies and knows that attacking America is great for him and a poor decision for me. He will ignore all these attacks until I land or leave something unprotected
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I believe your strategies are sound however I will not risk losing my few german fighters for Russian tanks under this scenario. The Russians will be able to buy them back in turn 3 and have to buy men until this turn to hold the Germans. As far as AES my brother does the unthinkable he evacuates india to AES lets Japan take India first turn and by 2nd trun Africa is lost. He will buy an aircraft carrier the first turn and land american planes on it first turn as well. By this turn Africa is lost. I usually buy a factory in for Japan to get some men in Asia as quickly as possible. My next strategy is to buy a factory in Western China on the 2nd turn and hold it. This way I will be very close to Moscow in addition I will pay the fine to blitz through the neutral territories to gain more Russian territories. As far as the Jap fleet I will immediatley start moving toward Africa turn 1. I plan on disregarding the American fleet. I may move my sub around South America but this may be futile. I need my planes and my carrier for Africa. Any opinions?
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Hate to burst your bubble, mikaylah, but you can’t “blitz” thru neutral territories. Russia will see you coming a mile off.
With India evacuated, your campaign in Asia should be a walk-thru. Check out the “Take Hawaii” thread for a funny gambit for dealing with this exact situation–might give you some ideas for much better strategies of your own.
Hope this helps.
Ozone27
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I plan on doing the following first turn holding eastern europe while destroying the british fleet. And buying all infantry and one transport. Next with Japan I am going to outright destroy pearl harbor. After landing my troops in asia I am withdrawing 2 transports to the solomon islands where I will land in Chile next turn paying the fee. I will buy transports and 4 men for Japan no factory. Next turn may Japanese fleet will be off the coast of Sout America. My men that landed in Chile will be in Brazil and my intent is to capture south africa where I will build a factory in turn 3.
I believe this will take heat of Germany fast. What should I do with my german sub in the atlantic?
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“I believe this will take heat of Germany fast. What should I do with my german sub in the atlantic?”
I think that the Atlantic sub should be used to help disable the UK Battleship in The Straits of Gibraltar.
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Sounds like somebody has been reading Don’s strategy site again. The danger with the Japanese fleet operating so far away from home waters is that the Sea of Japan transports are totally unprotected. The Alllies can drop bombers in Russian Asia easily since Japan is delayed in taking it with style of playing. This wipes out the Japanese transporting to Asia. This cannot happen for Axis victory. Also, the Allies although losing some extra territory (Brazil and/or South Africa), could operate normally anyway. The Japanese fleet is a threat in the Atlantic, but I’d play defensive and wait for them to attack. It would be easier to buy some extra naval units to use as fodder (The Allies would have the time to do so), than to panic and buy extra aircraft or more expensive naval units to directly deal with it. The British transporting to Africa, can overwhelm any Axis IC in Africa…
This is more of a scare tactic and a delaying one. Allies, keep your cool and take advantage of it…
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I’m sure the Brazil/Africa concept has been talked about before, but I wouldn’t suggest it. The main reason being is that it takes too long for the japanese transports to reach South Africa. Think about it, from Pearl Harbor, it takes 3 turns to reach South Africa. However, you must still wait an extra turn to place the IC because of the “no new IC on newly conquered territory” rule. Then you have to wait another turn to actually build units from it. This takes 5 turns (well, 6 if you count J1) for you to start producing any units from it. Then off course you have to move those inf from South Africa all the way up to North Africa, where most of the fighting should take place. Overall, I wouldn’t suggest it for obvious time and IPC concerns. Remember I’ll take time for those transports you sent out to Africa to return to Japan along with the 15 IPCs to buy a IC.
Key point, if you want to help the Germans out in Africa, I suggest setting up a convoy route from India to Egypt for a constant stream of units. Chances are you can reinforce the Germans quicker without wasting an IC to do it.
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TG is right. The gateway for Japan to Africa is through India, not South Africa. A factory in South Africa can only help you in you guessed it! Africa. A factory in India, on the other hand, can help with campaigns in both Asia Minor, Africa, and South Eastern Russia. By planning appropriately, you can move any number of forces into Africa, you are not just limited to two units from a South African factory. Taking India is part of the general Japanese strategy, there is no need to go out of your way and send two priceless transports to do it.
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I think I will try this gambit next time I play the game. For me invading neutral Chile allows my 2 infantry to walk to Brazil in turn 3. Also in turn 3 I will hit South Africa. I am not sure if I will buy a factory in South Africa as I can obtain territories quickly against few obstacles. I plan on buying a factory in India as my first IPC purchas possible in turn 3 or 4. As I am new to playing RR what would you do with the Germans in Norway/Finland. Assuming the Russians bought 8 men and placed them In Karlelia should I attack Karelia with a strafing run or just pull out the plane and back pedal to Eastern Europe. Should I take the transport and use it as a hit when attacking England’s fleet or should I pull 2 men off Norway and put them in Eastern Europe. Any opinions?
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