Well I say that the Germans would surrender outright to the Allies. Any intelligent German officer could see that the war was clearly lost by 1944. As for the fear of retaliation, what’s to fear when you cut of the head of the snake? Then again there were still some diehard Nazis who retreated to the Southern Mountains of Germany even after the war to fight another day (1946-1949).
Most generals agreed the war was over before it started. Germany could never sustain a two front war with the US as an untouchable base for the then European Allied powers. Hitler’s early political and military achievements silenced all early critics and the SS and Gestapo silenced the later ones…
Well what do you mean the German’s lost the war before it even started? Are you referring to September 1st, 1939 or when America (the last remaining power) entered the war? Personally, I think that by 1942 (and at most early-mid 1943) the Germans and Japanese still had a decent shot at winning the war.
[ This Message was edited by: TG Moses VI on 2002-03-30 10:07 ]
the germans wanted to continue fighting russia, even Doenitz in the end tried to do that, and then decided to move forces to be captured by the western allies.
Germany’s chance of winning the war flew out the window the moment they declared war on America. They could of not out produced america in men or supplies. Though russia did the majority of the fighting, Germany was getting along pretty well, and had chances to pull it around. (In 44 they even stalled the russian advance until winter.) America made german victory impossible. They wasted 3 million (men) in france alone. If GB was the only threat, 2 million could of made a huge difference against the russians.
The strategists in the Axis camp knew it was only a matter of time before America would join the war with it’s WW1 Allies. Germany could have defeated England alone with or without US backing, but not the Russians and English together. In order to win, Germany would have first have to defeat England on English soil. The Americans would have then been cut off from the war indirectly. After the UK surrendered, Russia could have been next. Hitler got too impatient and started the eastern war too soon. Japan should not have attacked Pearl and the Axis probably could have kept the US out of the war for a number of years which would have taken Russia and neutralized China. Only with this scenario did they have a chance. The US HAD to stay out of the war for Axis victory. It may have worked with competent Axis leadership and co-operation. We know that wasn’t the case…
On 2002-03-30 12:38, Field Marshal wrote:
The strategists in the Axis camp knew it was only a matter of time before America would join the war with it’s WW1 Allies. Germany could have defeated England alone with or without US backing, but not the Russians and English together. In order to win, Germany would have first have to defeat England on English soil. The Americans would have then been cut off from the war indirectly. After the UK surrendered, Russia could have been next. Hitler got too impatient and started the eastern war too soon. Japan should not have attacked Pearl and the Axis probably could have kept the US out of the war for a number of years which would have taken Russia and neutralized China. Only with this scenario did they have a chance. The US HAD to stay out of the war for Axis victory. It may have worked with competent Axis leadership and co-operation. We know that wasn’t the case…
The Americans were actually sinking U-Boats and vice versa before declraration of war, and america could of liberated GB from Iceland. Hitler was a dying man, and he wanted to escalate the war. He should of delayed the war to at least 42. An invasion of britain was next to impossible to pull off (even with air superiority.) Germany really should of invested in their helecopters, but i believe germany never wanted to invade GB. they wanted to make peace with them. They actually had something against the russian people.
they say only 1% of convoys across the Atlantic were sunk by U-boats that means that 99% went across untuched.
Hitler a drug adict? i thought he was a health freak he did not even allow smoking in his Berlin bunker.
oh ya and he also killed his dog allong with his wife.
Hitler complained about the US engaging in “war like” activities in the Atlantic, but took no real action towards declaring war on the US on his own. After Pearl Harbor, he hoped Japan would keep the US busy enough and out of the European/African theaters. Again, he grossly under-estimated US power and production capability.
He also lived in the illusion of a Germany/UK Axis. Western attitudes towards the Communists were no secret. He failed to realize the British would never settle for peace after the fall of France and would ally with Moscow to defeat the common enemy. The attrocities in the camps were hitting intelligence circles early on…
The comment about the whole Russia and England thing is true. Hitler hated the Russians, after taking Russia he could’ve relocated all the people to some war off waste land (or that what my history teacher said). In all of Hitler’s last moments in his bombed out Berlin bunker he never once regretted going to war with Russia.
As with England, Hitler actually never wanted war with Britian. Even before the Battle of Britian, Hitler stood impatiently by his phone hoping that the British would surrender or at least negoitate a truce.
Quite right, Hitler did believe russians to be inferior. This didn’t stop the Germans from using Russians as conscripts in the Weirmarkt though; the bunkers containing the 4 guns that would have slaughtered the Brits at Gold, or was it Sword, (sorry the name eludes me) and was taken by British airborne units before the invasion was manned almost exclusively by russians.
Yeah, I heard that a lot of Russians actually took part in defended the beaches at D-Day. Good thing they surrendered once they got the chance to.
Rommel quickly noticed the difference in the troops working on the Atlantic Wall compared to the troops under his command in Africa. The Afrika Korps were well disciplined, top-notch German soldiers. The Italians, even though Rommel initially downplayed their effectiveness, turned out to be very good soldiers as well (as he later admitted). At the Atlantic Wall, Rommel found undisciplined younger and older German soldiers. They and their officers had little heart in their defensive preparations. As last posted, he had the foreign national troops to deal with also. It was quite an assortment of men, equipment, and defenses to get up to speed before the Allied invasions came.
Rommel had approximately 6 months to prepare. He did a fairly good job turning troops over to a fighting force and getting defenses improved (even with supply materials limited). Given 6 more months, D-day would have been much bloodier. Given say a year, the Allies might have got thrown back into the sea. Rommel knew the battle was won or lost on the beaches. Unfortunately for him, he did not have supreme control over France and lost the arguement to have the Panzers close to the beaches. Rommel saw what Allied air supremacy did to his men in Africa. France would be worse, and it was. Armored divisions never made it close enough to Allied beachheads to be effective. German men fought bravely, with heavy casualties. Movement was reduced to after dark and under cover with minimal advances…
It is debateable if the panzers would of done much good all near the beaches. Rudenstech (however you spell it), did not want the tanks on the beaches, so hitler came up with the 1/3 solution. if they were near the beaches, they would of been near calais, and horribly spread out. Rusenstech wanted to have none spread out, so the allies would be allowed to establish a beachhead, but the germans would be able to take a mass of forces and attack one area alone. Even if this did not throw the allies into the ocean, it would of probably held the allies off more. Germany had troops in Cherbourg long after it was surrounded. they were horribly split. the beaches were too long to protect, and the atlantic wall was a billion reichsmark joke. i agree with the rudenstech guy’s strategy.
"Hitler a drug adict? i thought he was a health freak he did not even allow smoking in his Berlin bunker.
oh ya and he also killed his dog allong with his wife. "
Oh yes, hitler was a real big drugee. Health freak too. in fact he took drugs FOR his health. He had injections every day to deal with his shaking and head pounding, and took pills to help his stomach. His arms were horribly scarred by needles, and his injections and pills were poisons, poisonous penicilin derrivtives, procaine (a kind of cocaine), and god knows what else. He had a special doctor who specialized in Venereal Disease treat him, and he was well respected by hitler, and was given high priority throughout the war. He followed hitler wherever he went (and i cannot remember his name, but he’s a fat guy who wears glasses.) Hitler recieved severe damage to his nervous system because of all the drugs his phony doctor was giving him. Before hitler died, he was taking a drug that dealt with Parkinsans Disease.
please excuse my spelling!
And about the smoking, i think you are right. i believe he didn’t want smoking on U-boats, though they smoke two packs a day on them!
Hitler did kill his dog blondie, with a cyanide capsule. That dog was amazing, on a video of mine, hitler throws a bone over a 12 foot wall, and the dog jumps over and retrieves it. Too bad it just didn’t walk around it…
I think that if Hitler and Jodel had released their 15th Panzer from Calais, they might’ve made a difference in the invasion. However, Hitler still thought that Normandy was some diversionary tactic on part of the Allies.
i doubt that much could be done to prevent the allies from taking the beaches that day.
at Omaha the germans were doing an invation drill when the real thing hapaned and they still lost, the 101st was skatered in the wind but still did the needed damage the night before.
the allies learned from the mastakes of Dieppe and thats what made the landings on June 6 a victory
Well I wouldn’t be too sure. I read in a couple of articles that if the invasion was staged on June 4 or 5 when weather condiitons were terrible, the D-Day invasion might not have suceeded. Air power played (even though its never really touched on) a vital role in Operation OVerlord.
what goodwould the 15th do if there wereno bridges to cross?
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was it just me, or was this website down for a week?
Wait are we talking about the 15th Bomber Group. I don’t think Allied planers would send a whole bomber formation to knock out a bridge.
Anyways, there’s no doubt that the destruction of bridges in France slowed German froces but toward the end of the war, German wa the one blowing up its own bridges to stall the Allied advance.
they didn’t blow the one at remaggen though…i love that story.
Yes, but they were about to. The Germans still had to retreat large amount of men, supplies, and guns back to Germany to prevent capture by the Allies. Thank god for the efforts of General Hoge who prevented the crossing of the rhine many weeks.
Never before have we had so little time in which to do so much
[ This Message was edited by: TG Moses VI on 2002-04-08 16:05 ]
