@krieghund Thanks krieghund…
J1 latest trend: SZ52 Skipping
-
Well we weren’t specifically talking about a KJF, but that seems solid. I’ve never experienced a KJF.
This might seem a be a bit off topic but hang with me.
I know the standard build for Germany G1 is the bomber it seems, combine this with fortress europe tactics, typical opening german moves and keep as much as the german air force able to hit the atlantic. Unless the Norwegian gambit succeeds Sz2 is attacked so no bomber in Africa and typical attack against Egy, maybe bringing the tank rather than Art to slightly tip the surviving german force to elicit a brit counter attack, 2 surviving german tanks on G2 in Egy is bad news I think. If KJF requires/implies no Egy counter attack the bonus axis.
From my understanding, this bomber is to:
A) delay the Atlantic allied fleet build by a turn primarily in the early rounds and
B) to have 2 bombers available for the Bel, Ukr and Wru triangle that is unreachable by fighters in WEu.How correct are these premises, what am I missing, and what negative implications are there for no bomber build?
If Germany does a 5 Inf, 5 Tank build, combine this with Jap fighters in FIC at the end of J1 and/or fighters than reach Ukr.
The idea is then for the Germans to rush Ukr on G2 and re-inforce it with the Jap fighters. If Russia is not focused on Germany and Germany is not feeling the heat of the allies right away, such that that can muster by Round 2-3 in the Atlantic then Germany is set to move in force to WRu on Ger 4-5. The japs can land fighters in WRu to add the required defense until the Germans need to pull out then of course Jap air units go to WEu or to Cau as the Russians now must choose to defend Cau or Rus. By this time Jap tanks and a few infantry should be able to reinforce the Germans in Cau.
Lots of what-ifs and if the Russians stay home you might not get that opening. It seems to work for me, plans always do until they don’t!
-
We are indeed drifting offtopic.Imo a G1 bmb is a must,but only if Germany is absolutely sure tο be able to trade K-B-U without exposing its armor to a counter.And we all know a G1 3inf-art-3arm-bmb buy means that Russia can make a serious R2-3 claim on Ukr.
-
Well, with fighters in WEu, you have ample air power for ‘K’. I find I can sneak off 1 maybe 2 fighters on G2 and have them land in EEu or Blk if I need a plane for Bel or Ukr and the bomber is already engaged elsewhere. If the allies build navy or don’t after G1 you probably don’t need all 4 or 5 surviving german fighters in WEu do you? If they build navy they did so knowing they can survive the airforce as it is, so 1 less is meaningless. Yeah by G3 it’s getting a bit hot so yeah, 2 bombers usable for Bel and Ukr trades is good.
How does building or not building that bomber G1 affect allied fleet purchases/moves? I like the 5 tanks/5 inf build on G1, but I am obviously missing something.
-
Buying a G1 bmb and landing 3 ftr in WE means G2 can sink easily the merged SZ8 fleet at the expense of its ftr, which is totally worth it at this point of the game.
The Allies will have to (partially) merge in SZ2, which is keeping the Americans out of the Atlantic and makes the defence of Norway easy for Germany, something that can have dire consequences for Karelia. -
I see the numbers with a 2 sub, 2 bomber, 3 ftr attack against the best the allies can do in Sz8.
Is this an ‘automatic’ play, that is when Germany has less that that, automatically the Brits build a CV+2 DD in Sz8 and the americans/brits supply 2 fighters and cruiser?
I’m not sure I follow the partial merge in Sz2, is this due to air threat from Japanese air in WEu? What turn/build sequence does that involve?
I would see either (a brit navy build in Sz8 with low German threat) or (a bomber and maybe something else but no navy build on UK1 and a large US fleet build on US1 then a round 2 merge in Sz8 with a UK2 navy build). This is why for my circle, the faster japanese air gets into Europe, the worse for England.
But for me, even an early brit navy build in Sz8 round 1 doesn’t bother me much. Nwy is always going to fall by Us4. Us fleet build Us1>Sz8 US2>Sz12 Us3>Sz6 Us4 and capture of Nwy for possible US IC if and when Germany gets pinned down enough.
I like 5 German tanks on G1, no doubt the bomber build does slow down the allied fleet for 1 turn. The question: is that allied slow down worth more than Germany being able to lean forward quickly on G2 especially if Jap fighters are ready to land where Germany wants to stack. Works great until Brit land units are in the European theater anyways.
-
I like 5 German tanks on G1, no doubt the bomber build does slow down the allied fleet for 1 turn. The question: is that allied slow down worth more than Germany being able to lean forward quickly on G2 especially if Jap fighters are ready to land where Germany wants to stack. Works great until Brit land units are in the European theater anyways.
To bring your posts back to the Japan dilemma, I would probalby do the more agressive Ger buy (armor) together with a solid J1 attack on a stacked bury to put the heat on Russia very fast (Consider skipping SZ52).
I think I will consider doing a KJF like opening in my next game 3 Russian armor in Cauc R1 a stacked bury - India IC UK1 maybe even a risky UK attack on FIC. And of course a US IC in Sinkiang US1.
Has anyone ever faced a “proper” KJF opening in 42.I guess the best response is for G to be very aggressive on the eastern front - but it should definately give a very different game, with some tough choices for Japan.
-
I think the moment you see that stack on Bury R1 you do have to go Very aggressive. Knowing the brits will have to put their india fighter on Bury you put an armour in Egy rather than the art from SEu. The brits will be diverted from the atlantic and europe at the very least. If it is full KJF then Germany ought to punish the Russians. I would love to see a good KJF on PBEM here!
-
Knowing the brits will have to put their india fighter on Bury you put an armour in Egy rather than the art from SEu.
I Almost always bring the armor - I find that extra IPC is well spent for the better odds in these important battles in Africa.
-
I hear ya on that, can’t bring much to africa so it might as well be the best. The only draw back is on G2, if you hold the Art back on G1 it should stay in SEu for G2 or else you will have to move a newly built tank or pull from Bal and then you have to get an infantry that has already advanced rather than one purchased on G1.
I think if you go tank on G1, best to leave the Art in SEu and build a tank there too as well as at least 1 Inf, maybe 2 just in case of that 2% reason why you want 2 Inf going via TT somewhere.
Getting back to the thread……A large move into Bry I feel is a mistake unless you are going KJF. Telegraphing on R1 what your game plan is I feel gives the Axis a slight edge in the argument.
-
I think I will consider doing a KJF like opening in my next game 3 Russian armor in Cauc R1 a stacked bury - India IC UK1 maybe even a risky UK attack on FIC. And of course a US IC in Sinkiang US1.
Has anyone ever faced a “proper” KJF opening in 42.I guess the best response is for G to be very aggressive on the eastern front - but it should definately give a very different game, with some tough choices for Japan.
I started facing something similar on the last game… 6 inf stack on Bury, UK attack on FIC, Russians moving into Sinkiang, US buy of 2 ACs for the Pacific, UK IC on India.
Unfortunately for the Axis player, it is impossible to hold that India IC without Russian help at the start. I moved 3 inf, 1 arm to retake FIC, let the Russians have Manchuria and placed Japan in position to hit India with 5 inf, 1 arm and 4 ftrs on J2 (India had only 1 fighter).
The only chance would be for the Russians to send some of their 4 arm and 3 ftrs for India… but Germany hit WRus on G1 and now could stack WRus on G2, even if the 4 Russian arm are still around… the Allies now need to choose between losing Caucasus or India or both… -
3 fighters? 1 existing brit and the 2 Russians?
-
3 fighters? 1 existing brit and the 2 Russians?
3 Russian fighters. I’ve faced thrice this standard buy for Russia on round 1: 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr. I guess they must be really desperate to kill the SZ15 fleet. Only problem is that Germany buys 5 inf, 5 arm and afterwards the Eastern front is theirs.
-
How often is the 5 Inf, 5 Arm used? I like it myself, alot. I would LOVE to see Russia build that especially if they race them away on some complex scheme. I generally avoid schemes whereby allied nations are locked into specific courses of action unable to take advantage of strange yet beneficial dice rolls.
I am sure I am not the first to ask, Hobbes, how come you don’t play by forum here? I have read that you just don’t. Just curious.
-
Interesting game development Hobbes - thanks for sharing. I do however hope that it is possible to put together a more succesfull KJF attempt than that.
I don’t get the fighter buy for russia along with a KJF tactic.
My KJF Russia R1 will be something like this:
Buy 3 arm 3 inf attack on West Russia and Ukraine (a succesfull strafe on Ukraine would be the optimal outcome).
Stack bury - perhaps 2 inf to SinkiangWith armor in Cauc USSR can work on both fronts and reach India - A russian liberation of India would allow for UK to insert troops there, so it would be an important move if possible.
If USSR gets diced in the WR-Ukraine attacks it is not too late to switch to a more standard KGF - I would definately not build the India IC if West Russia was lost on G1.
-
Well, now it’s 4 times in a row I’ve seen the Russian 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr buy on GTO. This time there was only the WR attack, Russia didn’t go for Norway or Belo.
And it’s the 4th time that I respond by crushing West Russia on G1. Afterwards he tries a hopeless KFJ with an India and Sinkiang IC but Japan positions itself and attacks and takes the Sinkiang IC on J2, 3 inf, 1 arm, 5 fighters and 1 bomber against 4 inf and 4 ftrs. Rest of the game, wrap up Russia.
MrMalachiCrunch, I dislike playing by forum. Prefer the adrenaline of live play :)
-
Well, now it’s 4 times in a row I’ve seen the Russian 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr buy on GTO. This time there was only the WR attack, Russia didn’t go for Norway or Belo.
And it’s the 4th time that I respond by crushing West Russia on G1. Afterwards he tries a hopeless KFJ with an India and Sinkiang IC but Japan positions itself and attacks and takes the Sinkiang IC on J2, 3 inf, 1 arm, 5 fighters and 1 bomber against 4 inf and 4 ftrs. Rest of the game, wrap up Russia.
MrMalachiCrunch, I dislike playing by forum. Prefer the adrenaline of live play :)
The Sinkiang IC is good IF R1 goes well (on W.Russia and on Ukraine), giving the Russians some buffer (and without taking Ukraine the Russians in W.Russia are indeed dead meat…
If Allies do both US IC and UK IC (i tried that in my last 3 games and i happened to win all 3 of them, admitted 1 was by awesome dice for me, and the other 2 i also had decent dice).
If you do it, Russia should buy 1 more fighter (or a bomber) and a tank.
about 3 or 4 Russian INF need to go to Sinkiang right away, fighters need to land within attacking reach of China (not so hard on this small map), preferably Caucasus for the increased defence against amphibious attacks. Siberian Russians move to Buryata, UK must take out the japanese TRP (i prefer sacrificing the indian cruiser for this), AC flees, fighters land in India (here i prefer to retreat from Egypt, inf to Italian East Africa, egypt tank to persia, within reach of Egypt and FIC. Both fighters can still attack Egypt in a next turn). US FIG from Hawai to Australia (next turn land in India).
Optional: moving the UK figs to W.Africa gives more options in keeping an eye on Egypt.My point is: both UK and US IC should be secured for now. With the initial help of Russia (Russian tanks in Kazakh can move into India in 1 turn or attack China if needed.
I let US follow up with buying tank/fig for Sink. and bomber(s) in USA which can reach Sinkiang in 2 turns via Congo or Australia or Yakut (and if Yakut is safe, they can even do combat in their 2nd turn already)
Got abit carried away there, sorry :)
Edit: in one of those games Japan had built also 2 IC’s, but he 1-2-3 advantage of the Allies (US-Russia-UK) turned out deadly and they lost 1 IC pretty fast , due to a small mistake.
Not saying this is all without risk, but this strat has been kind on me.But if you do it, do it turn 1.
-
Question, why do you have forces in Egy? Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14? I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter. Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.
Fair enough Hobbes. I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks. I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites? The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.
-
Question, why do you have forces in Egy? Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14? I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter. Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.
mm, good question. basically because germany didnot attack me,
The first game they went to take Gibraltar (so no allied planes could land there and protect their fleet, even though, if the german fleet would be out of range if they went to Egypt… i kinda talked them into that, i must admit, haha).
The other 2 times they bought extra med fleet, so they decided to stay in the same zone, sending some land units to Libia.Indeed, if they take out Egypt (also not without risk for them) there won’t be any more retreating for me :)
Maybe next game they will do that. Until now they didn’t have much succes in africa, i think they might change strategy there. they should.
If so that is a job for… USA-man!
My opponents are good players though, but never really focused on Africa. -
Hmmm. with a solid set of german attacks, Sz2, Sz15, Sz13, Ukraine and Egy I suspect things would be different. I cannot justify not putting to work a fleet that then add to and africa units basking in the sun rather than fighting. I want every one of my pieces doing something, preferably attacking or moving to attack. I think if Germany is heating up the russian front, not diverting money by fleet purchased and attacking, well…I don’t like german fleet builds so I am biased I guess.
-
Fair enough Hobbes. I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks. I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites? The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.
Usually around 2 hours
Suggested Topics
