Guam & Naval Base on Wake?

[Praetorian]

I think its a neat idea - gonna give it a run through on our next play (probably not for a few weeks, sadly).  I too have been looking for a way to  get the US into an offensive posture sooner and this might be the ticket.

[Van_Trump]

Even nastier than Wake is Midway. I was planning to use the Midway naval base when I play usa this Saturday.

With a base in Midway Japan has to keep a huge number of troops stationed in Japan. It’s just too easy for the USA to get into the sea of Japan from Midway.

Then I thought about Japanese counters…OOPS

This threat forces Japan into a very aggressive counter on J1.
Take PI with 2 transports (2 inf 1 art 1 tank) from home fleet + cv from Truk (planes in land battle) + okinawa fleet.
Eliminate UK BB with 3 Bmb + Formosa fighter as usual.
Kill New Britain sub with DD
Kill Hawaii Tr with SS

Take Kwantung, etc… with troops and planes on continent + additional planes from Japan

And then…

Use Truk Trans + 1 inf to take Midway. Also move ENTIRE Japanese home fleet + Truk BB to midway. Put 4 fighters on the 2 cvs for defense. Make sure you have 4 Tac Bomb in Japan.

Build 3 transports + tank and move Manchuria art to Korea.

Now what is US to do? If he attacks Midway fleet it is likely to be mutual wipeout with at least 2 dmged Japanese BB’s surviving. (Dont forget CVs have 2 hits, defend on 2 and fighters can land on Midway)
Can US hold Hawaii? He can if all 4 ANZAC fighters reinf Hawaii.

What if Japan builds a naval base on Midway and now threatens Western US and/or Alaska/BC?

The cost of this variant is that Malaya does not fall on J2. It takes some pressure off India.
After building an Industrial Complex on J2 (FIC?) the pressure is back on. Japan still has  loaded CV, CA, DD and SS to protect Transports from UK fleet (such as it is) or planes (out of range)  as they take the money islands. Dont forget all 4 japanese bombers are in the vicinity as well.

Realize that IF Hawaii falls and is reinforced with Jap fighters Japan doesnt need to take India for 6 cities. Japan just needs Sydney which is conveniently nearby and underdefended.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

Can US hold Hawaii? He can if all 4 ANZAC fighters reinf Hawaii.

Yeah, I’m thinking from what you’re describing that Pearl has to hold.

@Van_Trump:

Realize that IF Hawaii falls and is reinforced with Jap fighters Japan doesnt need to take India for 6 cities. Japan just needs Sydney which is conveniently nearby and underdefended.

Well, if you can manage to hang on to Pearl with air, that air can be rapidly shifted to Australia, so that would appear to be the way to go.

So that’s what the J1 attack stacks up as, eh?  :-o

Pretty feakin’ nasty sounding if you ask me.  :evil:

One thing I kinda have enjoyed about this game so far, is that everytime we come up with a new type twist or strat for one side or the other, there has always been a counter to be had to it, I sure hope there is a survival plan for the Allies on this one!  :? :|

We’ll have to put a wrench on this one, the J1 attack looks devilish to me!

Should be fun working the problem though!  8-)

@Van_Trump:

Even nastier than Wake is Midway. I was planning to use the Midway naval base when I play usa this Saturday.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. Can’t you sail through SZ6 and into SZ19 from Midway with a naval base, and thus attack Manchuria? I mean, if Japan just has fighters defending Japan and SZ 6 is empty, for example.

[Van_Trump]

Japanese fighters can scramble from Japan even if amphibious assault is on Korea. So USA needs plenty of escorts.

If Japan takes Hawaii and then shifts forces to Australia make sure Japan has plenty of DD’s to screen potential US attacks on Hawaii.

I am pretty sure Hawaii can be held by US. It’s the dual threat of US invasion and Hawaii attack from Midway (after naval base has been built) that makes this so nasty for Japan. It’s a given US will be spending at least one turn building defenders for Western US.

Also, if US is foolish enough to move fleet to Hawaii, 4 Tac bombers from japan can reach (to go with 4 fighters on the CVs).

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

[Hobbes]

@Van_Trump:

Japanese fighters can scramble from Japan even if amphibious assault is on Korea. So USA needs plenty of escorts.

If Japan takes Hawaii and then shifts forces to Australia make sure Japan has plenty of DD’s to screen potential US attacks on Hawaii.

I am pretty sure Hawaii can be held by US. It’s the dual threat of US invasion and Hawaii attack from Midway (after naval base has been built) that makes this so nasty for Japan. It’s a given US will be spending at least one turn building defenders for Western US.

Also, if US is foolish enough to move fleet to Hawaii, 4 Tac bombers from japan can reach (to go with 4 fighters on the CVs).

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

On my J1 attack I occupied Wake on J2 with the Japs and placed the 3 ACs and the 2 BBs there just to threaten the US advance. Midway with a NB is sounding ever better after reading the ideas here.

The Allied counter is to push on Asia as much as possible and prevent Japan from taking all of the DEI by landing all UK fighters in one of the islands, possibly even sending ANZAC transports to reinforce them. And 1 minor IC only produces 3 units: China/UK will be producing at least 7 units per turn.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

LOL!!! We were thinking the same thing about Wake! :lol:

In the end, what these moves wind up being are good options to keep in mind depending on the what the Japanese player does.

So there is a good move for the Allies, then the Japanese counter with a move of their own…now the ball is back in the Allies court to see if they can volley. :?

@Hobbes:

The Allied counter is to push on Asia as much as possible and prevent Japan from taking all of the DEI by landing all UK fighters in one of the islands, possibly even sending ANZAC transports to reinforce them. And 1 minor IC only produces 3 units: China/UK will be producing at least 7 units per turn.

Exactly where I was turning my attention to, what can the Allies do in the DEI? I was thinking about the option of sending fighters to the islands, but at first though, I figured I’d sound like a lunatic for even mentioning the idea!  :-o What else can the Allies do there though? Massing the fighters on one island is a good idea and one option to try. :-)

J1 attack is pretty wicked though, I must say.

[Van_Trump]

If I’m Japan I lick my lips at the prospect of being able to pick off Allied fighters without inf support.
Don’t forget four Jap bombers + one loaded CV in area.
J2, troops in PI get moved to money islands. Since PI has NB, transports can pick up troops in HongKong and still reach money islands. So each transport is carrying 1 inf + art or armor. Together with air support it makes going after the money islands even juicier.

So if I’m UK or ANZAC player I DO NOT reinf Dutch East Indies with my fighters.

[WILD BILL]

Besides that most games I’ve played you need those UK ftrs to def Burma/India. W/o fighters UK capital is as good as dead. Maybe def E Indies w/Anz ftrs (and inf), but I wouldn’t put those at risk either. If Jap is coming strong you’ve got to bail!!

[Van_Trump]

Well, I tried US NB on Midway.
Jap player reinforced Japan heavily with builds on turn and moved BBs to defend sea zone. Then he built 3 new carriers and landed planes on them. US took Truk but was overwhelmed by counter attack 2 turns later.
By turn 7 he had 3 industries ( he built 3rd because US took one, temporarily, striking from Truk and burning the Tanks just produced.) on mainland and game was over. India never fell but was inevitable with Japanese production. Hawaii and Sydney were more vulnerable anyway.

Bottom line: Japan can build tanks on mainland to replace planes he moved to sea (landing on newly built Carriers).

So Japan can effectively build a loaded carrier for the cost of a carrier + 2 tanks. Japan starts with a surplus of planes he doesn’t need on mainland. The abilility to build tanks on mainland close to front line is unbalancing because it happens too quickly.

This loaded CV discount cannot be overcome when the US is earning roughly the same amount of $. Japan easily out produces the Americans.

Will try house rules of no new Industries on mainland for Japan next time. (as mentioned in “core problem” thread)

[WILD BILL]

I wouldn’t go to house rules as an option. Its a tough time for the allies, but you have to counter. If they build carriers, try building a bunch of subs. Their cheap to take hits, almost 3 to 1 cost of a carrier to dodge bullets. If you attack chances are you can ding the carriers and take out DD’s, and your allies can finish the job before Jap can fix them. Try to set up 3 fleets, all similar so if they attack one, you can counter a weakened Jap fleet with the other 2 before they repair. As for the Asian ground battle 3 IC would be tough. I’ve seen 2 and that was a bitch. It is easier for the UK if Jap has air, because its hard for them to protect newly taken tt. If they are dropping that much $ in tanks though ($6 a pop) like $40-$50 ipc they can’t be putting to many DD’ or other cheap ships into their navy making it more vulnerable IMO.