please remember that your “bread and butter” US opening should usually NOT include a pacific purchase with the intent to KJF with US only. Don’t “kinda” do a KJF, in fact dont ever plan on “kinda” doing anything in this game….you’ll get a lot of “almost” results with that ideal. Do it and do it hard! If you think KJF is the “best bet” vs the axis opening, die, and opponent then it should be a combined effort with at least some UK and Russia support. 9/10 times a KJF isn’t called for and I have a strong suspicion that OP needs to polish his US KGF game. Take a look at the main page and some of the basic “allied strategies” listed there for US.

rereading my own post I’ve decided I type like I think, which is awfully jumbled. sorry :)

@KGB:

@crispyHaole:

I think the real question here is, if you’re not stacking cau sufficiently, where are those units placed instead and how are they of better value there? There could be an argument when 3inf are bid in ukr, to R1 push absolutely everything into wru and possibly belo and defend cau 1 inf(placed). The argument being that wru might get wiped out otherwise. I rarely play against 9 bid in ukr so i dont have much there…any1?

If you attack Belo and leave 10 units in Cau, that means you’re hitting WRu with 6 inf, 2 art, 3 tank. On average, you will lose 2.6 units in WRu. If you lose 4 units (or even 3), Germany can counter with 3 inf, art, 3 tank, 4 fig, meaning you are offering him to trade at 1:1 rate or better.

Also, each additional unit in WRu helps to deter a G1 Kar stack. If you take Belo and WRu with 3 inf, 2 art, 3 tank (and have 3 tank, 2 fig, 7 inf in Cau), attacking 7 inf, 5 arm in Kar on R2 doesn’t seem like a good idea for example. This principle also applies if you don’t attack Belo (leaving 10 ground units in Cau gives you a 7 inf, 2 art, 6 arm, 2 fig attack against 9 inf, 6 arm on R2 if you lose 2 inf in WRu).

Interesting idea a44 of hitting the German Med fleet with Russia. I prefer to fly one or two UK figs to WRu on UK 1 and kill it with help of the Indian Ocean AC (and fig if need be) if I want it dead fast though.

I think there’s a slight miss communication here…

I wasn’t suggesting hitting wru and belo and stacking cau with 10 ground/2 planes. My opening is almost always as i stated earlier, wru with all (excluding 3inf/arm cau) then stack cau.

What I was stating was that IF you decide to open as I do BUT not stack cau as I do, then where oh where did you put those units instead (the ones I stack cau with). Furthermore, how are they of MORE value (wherever you place them) in that position.

I went on to say that 1 possible (good) answer to my question was in the instance of a 9 bid in ukr. Here some ppl have a good argument for hitting belo with all(3inf 2 ftr), wru with the rest(including all cau units) and leaving cau with 1 purchased inf.

About stacking Kar, this is a VERY GOOD point. I’m not thrilled about attacking 9inf/6arm R2 with 7inf/2art/7arm/2ftr (you said 6 arm, my purchase for this R1 is always 3inf/3arm so I have 7arm here). However even with 6/2/6/2 Russia is about a 2 to 1 favorite (7/2/7/2 is about an 8 to 1 fav) and IMHO because of position, is FORCED to make this attack. I think strafing this stack to 1 or 2 arm is optimal(especially when G1 purchased 5inf/5arm and therefore has a solid counter), but alas the dice don’t always cooperate in these small stack strafes. Another side benefit of that G1 9/6 is that the z5 navy stayed put(unless germany split it up?), meaning any surviving UK ftr (odds are 1) may land in wru and threaten z16(possibly z15 depending on Africa situation) since if R2 leningrad goes bad, cau units inevitably travel north, tempting the G2 amphib, especially if a few german inf remained in ukr rather than moving to eeu G1(not likely though).

Most of the time, if Germany stacks len on me it’s because of a combination of poor R1 wru, bad Russian trades(ukr/belo/len) in the next few rounds, and Germany sacrificing planes in the atlantic, slowing UK and US reinforcements/counters. Not that often in my experience.

Great discussion btw!

it would help if u post the map of this. But then again I’m not too sure how taboo it is to give advice about a current game. Better you find your own solution and discuss it post game IMHO.

I have a heavy poker background … full disclosure and all. The dynamic here very much reminds me of a poker concept that goes something like this: If you are playing against someone who has proven to be a worse player than you, avoid close gambles because you dont have to “gamble” to beat that player. Against someone proven better than you, take the close gambles because those are going to be your best spots. When I say “gamble” I"m talking about (in poker anyway) those 55-45 situations and even those 60-40 spots. IMHO i think in comparison to A&A, these would be around 65-35 and 75-25 situations, respectively. I also believe R1 ukr(no bid/1unit bid)/G1 cau(10ground + red planes) are both spots that fall into this category. So I guess If u ever see me try this on you, you should feel complimented!

I think the real question here is, if you’re not stacking cau sufficiently, where are those units placed instead and how are they of better value there? There could be an argument when 3inf are bid in ukr, to R1 push absolutely everything into wru and possibly belo and defend cau 1 inf(placed). The argument being that wru might get wiped out otherwise. I rarely play against 9 bid in ukr so i dont have much there…any1?

I stack with ftrs, most commonly my R1 ends with 8inf, 2arm, 2ftr in cau. The  german option to attack it on g1 to me, feels like the same type of gamble the russian player was trying to avoid in ukr r1. the most likely result of that g1 attack on cau is germany being forced into sacrificing a plane just to take cau with 1 arm, which is countered handily on uk1 with inf, ftr, bmr. the only arguable reason to commit to this is the killing of those russian ftrs. is forcing yourself into a best-case-scenario-trading-of-cau-while-constantly-having-germany-purchase-4±arm(usually the g1 buy for this battle is 5inf/5arm) while praying jpn moves its heiny quickly enough worth those 2 red planes?

1inf bid in ukr for me changes nothing (germany usu takes with 1 unit still)

2inf bid means germany just as often takes with 3 arm as 1 so i still stubbornly stack as above. also a 2inf bid in ukr means at most 1 inf in lib…does the german player really hose himself in africa just to do this? another allied advantage?

3inf bid ukr means germany often takes with 4arm, which is a problem since the next wave can be 7inf/4arm/planes(if belo wasnt touched). But then a 3inf bid in ukr means no bid units in lib and no need to focus any us or uk troops in africa. this means the fastest buys/placement of brits and yanks toward berlin is very smooth. does the german player like to play this high-risk race type game? DDay uk2? hmmmmmm chances are that if he does he’ll make other mistakes that can be taken advantage of.

Ive personally given up messing with either the r1 ukr or the g1 cau. Just doesnt seem worth it in a serious game. MAYBE, MAYBE this can be good if there’s a silly error or dice catastrophe on r1. even then, i believe the advatage you receive from that r1 snafu can be utilized long term and safe-like, rather than giving yourself an opportunity to eat some of russia’s crow.

any1 know how the bids work or are placed at facebook AA?

Since this is relevant to this discussion ill post it here.

Gnasape, when you gave me the LL rules on SBR i took them on blind faith that you got em from play tested and mathematically proficient sources. However it seems to me that base dmg for SBR’s should be 3 or 4 based on whether or not u hit on a d3, not a d1. If average SBR dmg was 3 1/6 then a d1 would be correct. But average SBR dmg is 3 3/6 so it seems to me that a d3, not a d1, should be rolled where a hit = 4 IPC dmg and a miss = 3 IPC dmg.

Change it up or prove me wrong friend. And hurry up with your turns! I swear u have the attention span of a gnat! Seems your only interested in a game for the first few turns then u wanna start another! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

@Veqryn:

i would not support more than 2 LL chips per team, and by team I mean the entire side, so the axis get 1-2, the allies get 1-2

This works fine for 1v1, but what about multi-player games?

@Veqryn:

I dislike the idea of buying chips though, because then I could just buy a bunch right as my troops get to moscow to make sure they get through.  By having players start with a set number, (a low number), they will have to ration them out.

This is a very astute observation. Taking this further, one could abuse this by getting to the point in the game where they’ve basically lost due to poor moves and then decide to just “go for broke” buying all “re-roll” chips and picking/setting-up some long-shot, game-changing battle and rolling for it 6-8 separate times to get the desired result. This is just like the old “last ditch tech” hail-mary turn ppl used to see in 2nd ed.

I still think that for what OP is trying to accomplish, buying “re-roll” chips is a decent enough option. Perhaps to combat the aforementioned abuse you could make it a rule that only 1 chip may be used per battle? per country turn? per side turn?

RE: LL chips……hmmmmm I wouldn’t think anyone should be forced to pay IPC for these. Maybe some hybrid system? 2LL chips given to each country at start of game and re-roll chips only for purchase? …starting to get a bit too complex for my taste here, but hey, whatever makes the game more enjoyable for both sides!

RE: AA shots, I still think that any re-roll activities should be limited to dice YOU roll, therefore when u have that big battle and your opponent rolls 3/5 AA hits, well, too bad so sad for you. It was his roll, congratulate him!