:lol:
From a lot of the discussion and feedback I see, I sometimes get the feeling that no matter what, nothing would be convincing enough.
I am wondering if there is even a possiblity for you to believe.
As a matter of fact, i (and Falk) answer and refute every theist argument, there was no argument we could not argue/refute (from my point of view anyway). I think i was very clear on my answer, i did not only answer “i am right”, i always refute argument and counter-argument. So i don’t think i am making any fanatical move by remaining an atheist.
What would i need to be a theist again ? Well… not a miracles, i only request a logical argumentation, not a deformation of any physic law, but a real argument i could not refute. Argument from design or the Prime Factor argument does not impress me :)
:lol:
Even if I was convinced that “God” exist, I still wouldn’t follow its teachings.
Anything asking for praise, and if denied, punishes, is, well…… evil in a sense.
I would refuse to kneel before anything reguardless of the threats of eternal darkness and suffering.
Doesn’t sound like a nice guy to me.
"Thus, by their fruit you wil recongnize them."Not everyone who says to me,’ Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven., but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,’ Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly,’ I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer!
Matthew 7:20-23
That’s not very friendly if you ask me.
Do my will???
Whatever guy.
Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…
@Field:
Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…
i agree.
and i find that i learn more about myself and my faith as i express myself. I feel more connected to God as i discuss faith issues. At the same time, i do learn here as well.
Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?
My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.
@city:
Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?
My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.
yeah - i was kind of going there earlier.
to have to submit and be humble in the face of something much greater than ourselves does not leave room for arrogance.
given the fact that i am an arrogant person (according to FinsterniS and my sisters) i might be a bit of an anomaly in this regard . . . .
@city:
Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?
My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.
Ok, we will look at that;
I don’t believe in the concept of superiority, exept maybe that a “superior” species… Nothing Inferior, Nothing Superior. Even maybe some animals are superior because they are not as “deviant” in the ecosystem as we are. So in many way i think we are worse than “second best”.
A christians believe that after god, he is the best. Of all living being on earth he is the only one with a soul; in brief the only one with a purpose, the other were just created for him. Also, the living being that is the creator of the universe create him in his own image and even more; he is expressing the same kind of morality. In christianism the Human race is the center of the creation and of the universe; pure anthropocentrisme !
And you are saying that my position is arrogant ? Seriously ? The first thing you need to be an Atheist is to be humble, to understand you are not the center of the creation, you have no special place, no special purpose, you are nothing mode than a living being, equal to other living being you must respect; people do not want to accept it even if they have enough knowledge to explain the universe with only nature. Sure there is as much kind of Atheism as there is Atheist, it’s just my vision of Atheism…
Finsternis, I’m curious.
What is your view on Entropy VS. Evolution? I find that they quite contradict each other, while only entropy is actual scientific law…
@city:
Finsternis, I’m curious.
What is your view on Entropy VS. Evolution? I find that they quite contradict each other, while only entropy is actual scientific law…
I don’t how Evolution work exactely (no one does), but it does occur and you don’t need to be an expert to know that.
About Entropy “vs” Evolution I answer that TWICE and also F_alk in “Religion?” (page 6), if you have any counter-argument, show them, but don’t repeat the same argument over and over again ad nauseam…
This reasoning (thermodynamic is in conflict with evolutionism) is one the most convincing evidence that religion can be nefast to science. Theist are again using pseudo science to spread confusion and ignorance… quite sad…
I don’t how Evolution work exactely (no one does), but it does occur and you don’t need to be an expert to know that.
About Entropy “vs” Evolution I answer that TWICE and also F_alk in “Religion?” (page 6), if you have any counter-argument, show them, but don’t repeat the same argument over and over again ad nauseam…
This reasoning (thermodynamic is in conflict with evolutionism) is one the most convincing evidence that religion can be nefast to science. Theist are again using pseudo science to spread confusion and ignorance… quite sad…
oh oh . . . i have a question . . .
how do you spell “condescending”?
Finsternis, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is called a law for a reason… it has never in a lab been broken. Where does the “pseudo” come in?
@city:
Finsternis, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is called a law for a reason… it has never in a lab been broken. Where does the “pseudo” come in?
This is preudo science because it is deforming a law. Read carefully the second law, look how it work and then try to claim it is in conflict with Evolution ! Like i don’t remember who said that; Evolution is as much in contradiction with Thermodynamic as a bird is in contradiction with gravity. Please get information of the subject then make a counter argument but I and F_alk explain that it clearly, if you have an objection, just make it but read what we have already answered please.
Congratulation ! You are the first i know from america who spell Nietzsche the rigth way.quote]
AH HA!
FinsterniS IS INCORRECT.
I shall put it another way.
FinsterniS IS WRONG!I, an American, spelled Nietzsche on this website[two months ago] the way Nietzsche spelled Nietzsche during his whole Pre-Neitzschean, Neitzschean, and Post-Nietzschean life( :oops: Oops! Sorry, he couldn’t spell it Post-Nietzschean. He is dead during the Post-Nietzschean Era!).
I have a witness. I must ask the court to declare this a hostile witness.
My witness is FinsterniS! He complimented me upon noting my quoting Friendrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900).
Therefore, cc, I regret to inform you that you are not the first. In addition, you will note that I do not claim to be the first either. I am not sure, numerically, where I fit in FinsterniS’s life on the “i know from america who spell Nietzsche the rigth way.” list. Nor would I presume to take any position of which I am undeserving. However, cc, I do know I rank ahead of you on this most honorable of occassions. So, :raspP
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NYAH! NYAH! NYAH! NYAH! BOO! BOO!,etc. - Xi
Hey,
Duds & Dudettes,
Isn’t this string like two rabbits, with blinders on, trying to discuss whether the hunter(s) about to shoot them is God(s). Get it? Limited communication skills, limited view, and limited intellect! :lol: :wink:
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I’ll close by saying ’ prove ” go — yourself! - Xi
Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?
Depending on the animal…
in various parts of the world…
it’s called a ride…
or dinner…
or both. However, please, keep in mind that if it must be both…
the ride is recommended first. It’s a little rough the other way around! :P
NYUK! NYUK! - Xi
Congratulation ! You are the first i know from america who spell Nietzsche the rigth way.
AH HA!
FinsterniS IS INCORRECT.
I shall put it another way.
FinsterniS IS WRONG!
Guilty ! :)
I was challenged by a guest to read carefully the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and then make a case that it is in conflict with evolution. Merry Christmas.
“In terms of entropy the second law states that the total entropy of a closed system cannot decrease.”
–xrefer.com “Thermodynamics”
Entropy as an adjective is most easily described as disorder. To say that disorderliness, apart from outside intervention, cannot decrease, is saying this: Unless YOU personally do something, your messy room won’t get any cleaner.
So let me ask you this, if we evolved from single-celled organisms, didn’t we need, according to this law, some OUTSIDE INTERVENTION in order to become more complex beings?
@city:
I was challenged by a guest to read carefully the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and then make a case that it is in conflict with evolution. Merry Christmas.
“In terms of entropy the second law states that the total entropy of a closed system cannot decrease.”
–xrefer.com “Thermodynamics”Entropy as an adjective is most easily described as disorder. To say that disorderliness, apart from outside intervention, cannot decrease, is saying this: Unless YOU personally do something, your messy room won’t get any cleaner.
So let me ask you this, if we evolved from single-celled organisms, didn’t we need, according to this law, some OUTSIDE INTERVENTION in order to become more complex beings?
in order to save us Christians some embarrassment COAH, i will suggest that one kind of outside intervention might be the sun. It, via various organic and biochemical reactions, pulls CO2 together to produce glucose. From glucose we get our energy.
I fully agree that “outside intervention” makes more sense (to me) than the blind watchmaker hypothesis subscribed to - including the “non-reducible complexities” found in animal physiology.
At the same time, before you go down these roads, you might check out some earlier posts such as the “Prime factor” one, and others involving the “God exists” vs the “God does not exist” people (although i admittedly enjoy the posts from the agonistics the most . . . ).
