The Existence of God

@EmuGod:

@Field:

The purposes will vary slightly from belief system to belief system. Writings such as the Judeo-Christian Bible and/or the Moslem Koran will in of themselves have more of a noble purpose. Peace, prosperity, fertility, brotherhood, to name a few. However, later human interpretations of these early books will usually loose the original meanings. Influenced by the current governmental systems in charge; purposes such as conquest, conversion (religious), territorial expansion; are added to the list. If Jesus saw what we were doing in his name after 2000 years, he’d spin in his grave fast enough to power New York City! (Theoretically of course, the Christians believe he rose into Heaven).

The purpose for animals, you know the answer - TO SERVE MAN…
Why? This I answered in the “Religion” thread topic…

Judaism doesn’t have forced conversion or missionaries. It’s aainstthe religion There was one king, John Hyrcanus (who should never have reigned), that conducted a forced conversion and because of it, his family suffered as did the Jews under King Herod, who was a Jews by the forced conversion but was not actually a Jew according to Jewish law.

Of course with Christianity “forced conversion” is non-biblical. In fact Jesus tells Christians to not throw their pearls before swine (a metaphor for “don’t waste your time”). Although we are commisioned to tell the world about Jesus, there is no “power” struggle involved - i.e. our job is to tell, not convince - the Holy Spirit does that.

:lol:

:lol:

CC you “dodge” my question and the question of F_alk…

Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?

And what purpose god give us ?

Wild2000 - I doubt Jesus would have endorsed the Crusades. Once the Roman Empire officially converted to Christianity (for political reasons) the rulers over the next few centuries added most of the rules (for the Catholic Church) outside the Bible we’re familiar with now. Obviously people would dispute such changes considering them heretical (illegal). This is why we had the Schism in the 11th century and later the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. If interpretations remained consistent this would not happen.

There is little doubt that Jesus was executed by crucifixion (by Roman law). I was just illustrating the point I was making…

@FinsterniS:

CC you “dodge” my question and the question of F_alk…

Also i have a question; god “give us a purpose” in life, but what of the animals ?

And what purpose god give us ?

Actually didn’t dodge, but i figured FM’s reply was nearly sufficient.
Also i hadn’t thought too much about the purpose of animals on the earth. I obviously don’t know, as they never have told me.
As for our purpose on this earth, i think that’s for each of us to find out. The bible gives us rules for the journey, but the ultimate end is for us to figure out. When we lie on our deathbeds and look back will i be happy i spent this gorgeous summer afternoon on the computer? Or is there more to my life than this?
Of course while we are here, i’m sure God would appreciate some worship from those “lunatic” enough to buy into God’s existance. By living for God, we may find that higher purpose - that reason for our lives - in helping other people, and devoting ourselves to a higher purpose than the almighty dollar etc.
But i don’t really know. Or care. I’m here, that’s enough for now. I know what i want and need (or i think i do), and i have a good idea of where i want to be. God’s purpose for me is being revealed in the way that it should. As for your purpose,
no idea.
none.
Probably to make me dwell a little more on spiritual things, to seek out God more, and ponder spiritual matters more. You’ve been most helpful in that regard.

:lol:

@Wild2000:

From a lot of the discussion and feedback I see, I sometimes get the feeling that no matter what, nothing would be convincing enough.

I am wondering if there is even a possiblity for you to believe.

As a matter of fact, i (and Falk) answer and refute every theist argument, there was no argument we could not argue/refute (from my point of view anyway). I think i was very clear on my answer, i did not only answer “i am right”, i always refute argument and counter-argument. So i don’t think i am making any fanatical move by remaining an atheist.

What would i need to be a theist again ? Well… not a miracles, i only request a logical argumentation, not a deformation of any physic law, but a real argument i could not refute. Argument from design or the Prime Factor argument does not impress me :)

:lol:

Even if I was convinced that “God” exist, I still wouldn’t follow its teachings.

Anything asking for praise, and if denied, punishes, is, well…… evil in a sense.
I would refuse to kneel before anything reguardless of the threats of eternal darkness and suffering.
Doesn’t sound like a nice guy to me.

"Thus, by their fruit you wil recongnize them."Not everyone who says to me,’ Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven., but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,’ Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly,’ I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer!
Matthew 7:20-23

That’s not very friendly if you ask me.
Do my will???
Whatever guy.

Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…

@Field:

Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…

i agree.
and i find that i learn more about myself and my faith as i express myself. I feel more connected to God as i discuss faith issues. At the same time, i do learn here as well.

Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?

My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.

@city:

Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?

My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.

yeah - i was kind of going there earlier.
to have to submit and be humble in the face of something much greater than ourselves does not leave room for arrogance.
given the fact that i am an arrogant person (according to FinsterniS and my sisters) i might be a bit of an anomaly in this regard . . . .

@city:

Fisternis, in what way does the belief in a God stem from arrogance?

My personal view is that we reject Him in our arrogance because we don’t want to be only second best.

Ok, we will look at that;

I don’t believe in the concept of superiority, exept maybe that a “superior” species… Nothing Inferior, Nothing Superior. Even maybe some animals are superior because they are not as “deviant” in the ecosystem as we are. So in many way i think we are worse than “second best”.

A christians believe that after god, he is the best. Of all living being on earth he is the only one with a soul; in brief the only one with a purpose, the other were just created for him. Also, the living being that is the creator of the universe create him in his own image and even more; he is expressing the same kind of morality. In christianism the Human race is the center of the creation and of the universe; pure anthropocentrisme !

And you are saying that my position is arrogant ? Seriously ? The first thing you need to be an Atheist is to be humble, to understand you are not the center of the creation, you have no special place, no special purpose, you are nothing mode than a living being, equal to other living being you must respect; people do not want to accept it even if they have enough knowledge to explain the universe with only nature. Sure there is as much kind of Atheism as there is Atheist, it’s just my vision of Atheism…

Finsternis, I’m curious.

What is your view on Entropy VS. Evolution? I find that they quite contradict each other, while only entropy is actual scientific law…

@city:

Finsternis, I’m curious.

What is your view on Entropy VS. Evolution? I find that they quite contradict each other, while only entropy is actual scientific law…

I don’t how Evolution work exactely (no one does), but it does occur and you don’t need to be an expert to know that.

About Entropy “vs” Evolution I answer that TWICE and also F_alk in “Religion?” (page 6), if you have any counter-argument, show them, but don’t repeat the same argument over and over again ad nauseam…

This reasoning (thermodynamic is in conflict with evolutionism) is one the most convincing evidence that religion can be nefast to science. Theist are again using pseudo science to spread confusion and ignorance… quite sad…

@FinsterniS:

I don’t how Evolution work exactely (no one does), but it does occur and you don’t need to be an expert to know that.

About Entropy “vs” Evolution I answer that TWICE and also F_alk in “Religion?” (page 6), if you have any counter-argument, show them, but don’t repeat the same argument over and over again ad nauseam…

This reasoning (thermodynamic is in conflict with evolutionism) is one the most convincing evidence that religion can be nefast to science. Theist are again using pseudo science to spread confusion and ignorance… quite sad…

oh oh . . . i have a question . . .
how do you spell “condescending”?

Finsternis, the Second Law of Thermodynamics is called a law for a reason… it has never in a lab been broken. Where does the “pseudo” come in?