I was just joking FinsterniS, don’t take it personally.
I’ve discovered in my life that EVERY argument can be countered, every evidence can be denied; except for ONE. If Finsternis doesn’t believe certain things that I say, its his prerogative. What NO ONE can deny of me is this: JESUS, GOD; BLIND, FOOLISH FAITH, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED WHO I AM. I NO LONGER SWEAR. I CHOOSE TO LOVE. I FORGIVE, EVEN WHEN IT IS HARD.
(and none of these things come from me… you would know this as fact if you knew me before I believed in Christ!)
I don’t need an outside force to change who I am. I’m strong enough to use my inner strengths and those around me to get through times of trouble. And that has made all the difference…
@city:
I’ve discovered in my life that EVERY argument can be countered, every evidence can be denied
It’s so easy… So false also… The fact you can’t give an unfallacious argument for god does not mean “every argument can be countered”. Saying non-sence, then claiming everything can be countered is a very strange way of thinking… if you want to be blind go ahead; but it’s not for me.
What NO ONE can deny of me is this: JESUS, GOD; BLIND, FOOLISH FAITH, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED WHO I AM. I NO LONGER SWEAR. I CHOOSE TO LOVE. I FORGIVE, EVEN WHEN IT IS HARD.
God’s love…. i call that hate but anyway… I never said it did not change your life, i don’t know, but still it’s not a reason to believe in mythology, it could be, like you say yourself, “Foolisth faith”. Some scientist claim those who pray had less heart problem, it’s true, not because of god, because you can pray anyone, god, satan, allah, boudda, the important is the meditation, it is calming. What i want to say is that even if god help some people, we can easily call that fanatism, blind faith.
Hi, sorry for jumping in so late on this one, but I have been reading the thread as its grown. I just want to toss out a question:
If God exists and it created the Earth, us and everything else, then why do we have earthquakes? There is no tectonic activity on either the Moon or Mars. So God must be able to create planets that do not have quakes. Earthquakes have killed countless people over the centuries and caused tremendous physical damage to cities, etc.
If God is good, then we would not have earthquakes. We have earthquakes. Planets exist that do not have earthquakes. Therefore God is either evil, not omnipotent, or does not exist at all.
Thanks,
God only wants what’s best for us! We didn’t follow the “Bible” so now we get punished :roll:
I doubt all people killed in earthquakes are sinning Christians…
Hi, sorry for jumping in so late on this one, but I have been reading the thread as its grown. I just want to toss out a question:
If God exists and it created the Earth, us and everything else, then why do we have earthquakes? There is no tectonic activity on either the Moon or Mars. So God must be able to create planets that do not have quakes. Earthquakes have killed countless people over the centuries and caused tremendous physical damage to cities, etc.
If God is good, then we would not have earthquakes. We have earthquakes. Planets exist that do not have earthquakes. Therefore God is either evil, not omnipotent, or does not exist at all.
Thanks,
Well, that’s quite a radical jump.
First, from what I believe, the moon isn’t composed of the same material that the Earth is. There’s no rule that “all planets must have earthquakes.” This doesn’t really have anything to do with God either being evil or not, since you could make this accusation towards anything bad that happens in the world.
Ha, the moon landings were fake. :wink:
Of course it’s fake. If it had been possible, the Soviets would of beat us there by years. They saw it was impossible with the day’s technology, and put their resources into Space Stations.
I just thought of a great analogy for Religion.
You are delt a hand in 5 card draw. You have 1 Ace, 1 Jack, and some minor cards.
The believer folds.
The Athiest dumps the 3 minor cards for 3 other cards.
The Agnostic Bluffs and wins the pot )
Of course it’s fake. If it had been possible, the Soviets would of beat us there by years. They saw it was impossible with the day’s technology, and put their resources into Space Stations.
I just thought of a great analogy for Religion.
You are delt a hand in 5 card draw. You have 1 Ace, 1 Jack, and some minor cards.
The believer folds.
The Athiest dumps the 3 minor cards for 3 other cards.
The Agnostic Bluffs and wins the pot )
Tell me your not serious……
@F_alk:
@Deviant:Scripter:
First, from what I believe, the moon isn’t composed of the same material that the Earth is. There’s no rule that “all planets must have earthquakes.” This doesn’t really have anything to do with God either being evil or not, since you could make this accusation towards anything bad that happens in the world.
Wether the moon is the same material or not is not a question of believe… we have been there!
For the earthquakes: we have sent probes to a few planets: some seem to have had planetquakes.
That’s exactly my point F_alk, but Zero reasoned that since some planets don’t have earthquakes, our planet must be an act of God. What kind of reasoning is that?
@Deviant:Scripter:
@F_alk:
@Deviant:Scripter:
First, from what I believe, the moon isn’t composed of the same material that the Earth is. There’s no rule that “all planets must have earthquakes.” This doesn’t really have anything to do with God either being evil or not, since you could make this accusation towards anything bad that happens in the world.
Wether the moon is the same material or not is not a question of believe… we have been there!
For the earthquakes: we have sent probes to a few planets: some seem to have had planetquakes.That’s exactly my point F_alk, but Zero reasoned that since some planets don’t have earthquakes, our planet must be an act of God. What kind of reasoning is that?
No… he said that, as we have Earthquake, god is either Evil or he is not omnipotent…
That’s all the big paradox, i can even say dualism, of Omnipotence and “All-loving”…
Still, you can argue what “omnipotence” and “all-loving” is… so in the end this kind of argumentation does not go very far. Not as far as Logical, Physical and Neurological argument. The “easiest” way is to refute all theist argument, then to show that if religion only stand on faith, all religion are equal, and to finish to show that some religion are in contradiction, to prove faith is not reliable.
Some are also using new discoveries to show how “epidemic” religion is, as reseach like those of Pascal Boyer, Andrew Newberg and Eugene Aquili are showing…
Funny, I thought the “war” was over.
Just some skirmishes…
Hi,
Sorry, I’ve been MIA. Thanks for the responses. FinsterniS is correct in intepreting what I was trying to say. To summarize and beat the dead horse one more time:
There is evil in the universe not created by man (i.e., earthquakes, etc.)
There is evidence that such evils are not a necessary requirments for the existence of earth. (i.e., its possible to concieve of an earth free of earthquakes.)
If God exists, and he is all powerful and good, then why would he create an earth with evil traits?
God is either not all powerful, or not good.
Sorry, if my argument is clumsy its been a long time since I studied formal reasoning, and I haven’t been practicing it as much I probably should in day to day life :oops:
Earthquakes are not evil
Death is not evil. Death happens, we can’t live forever. Something uncontrollable is not evil, it just is not a great thing to have around.
Why would this Omnipotent God allow the Devil to exist?
Earthquakes are not evil
Death is not evil. Death happens, we can’t live forever. Something uncontrollable is not evil, it just is not a great thing to have around.
These things are not evil only if they do not have a creator/agent. God as the creator of the universe is responsible for all deaths caused by natural disasters. He is guilty of mass murder or at the very least manslaughter.
Why would this Omnipotent God allow the Devil to exist?
He wouldn’t.
