Problem with the New 40mm Bofors L60

[Rikolus]

Hi all,  We had our first games with the new expansion yesterday and ran into a problem.   The 40mm Bofors seems much too strong!  It has great stats for only 9 build points.  But the real problem is this:  OK, we know it’s supposed to be good against airplanes.   But then the angst becomes, “do I buy it and worry that it will be a waste because the opponent didn’t buy any aircraft”.   The problem is that the stats are so good that it’s a great piece even if the enemy DOESN’T buy aircraft!  Therefore, it is a no-brainer to ALWAYS buy it, which pretty much renders the Axis planes useless (or at least much less effective) because he KNOWS the Allies will have it because it is just too good a piece not to buy!    How could they produce such an over-valued item?    Our whole group felt the same way… please let us know where we are missing the catch on this.

[GrimJesta]

Alot of the AA guns were also used as effective anti tank/infantry guns as well (depending on the gun), so they’re supposed to be nasty. The Bofor’s anti-infantry is really nasty for only 9 points, but it has a crappy defense and it can’t move and fire, so the trick is to out manuever it. There’s plenty of stuff to kill a 3 Defense unit Hell, just get a Whermact sniper in cover at medium range and ruin that Bofor’s day; it is a Soldier (not vehicle) afterall.

:)

What I fear is when they come out with the much-needed (and sorely missed in this new set) Flak 8.8! That think is going to do for anti-tank tactics what the Bofors does for anti-infantry…

-=Grim=-

[Der Leiter]

The Bofors seems strong on paper, and it’s well worth the 9 points, but I don’t think it’s overpowering.

It only has one shot a turn, 3/3 defense is terrible, it’s hard to position correctly, if transported your opponent can completely mess up your deployment on you.

The fact is it’s easily neutralized by several units like cavalry, motorcycles, snipers, armoured cars, most medium tanks, even paratroopers…  I could go on.

If you absolutely fear the Bofors then make sure you play a Brummbar.

[Rikolus]

  Some good suggestions guys, altho I would again just go back and compare stats.   It seems like all the artillery are 3 defense, so it’s no worse than others _(sIG 33, now THAT’s terrible defense… and 15 points!).   _ But the amount of dice the Bofors rolls and distance it shoots makes it extremely dangerous against advancing infantry, strong against weak tanks, and all while providing great air cover, just in case your opponent spends double the Bofors cost on an airplane.   For 9 points, I cannot imagine not taking it.  I guess I am just surprised because this becomes about the first unit I have ever seen that would be logical to take under virtually any circumstance.  And what I like about the game is that while people can have their favorite units, or have units that they prefer in certain circumstances, there has not been (at least from what I have seen) a piece that is so strong that it demands to be in every force.    I hope to see some play at our local shop where it doesn’t have a particularly good game, just to prove my assessment wrong!

[Der Leiter]

@Rikolus:

  Some good suggestions guys, altho I would again just go back and compare stats.   It seems like all the artillery are 3 defense, so it’s no worse than others _(sIG 33, not THAT’s terrible defense… and 15 points!).   _ But the amount of dice the Bofors rolls and distance it shoots makes it extremely dangerous against advancing infantry, strong against weak tanks, and all while providing great air cover, just in case your opponent spends double the Bofors cost on an airplane.   For 9 points, I cannot imagine not taking it.  I guess I am just surprised because this becomes about the first unit I have ever seen that would be logical to take under virtually any circumstance.  And what I like about the game is that while people can have their favorite units, or have units that they prefer in certain circumstances, there has not been (at least from what I have seen) a piece that is so strong that it demands to be in every force.    I hope to see some play at our local shop where it doesn’t have a particularly good game, just to prove my assessment wrong!

The 3/3 defence on a soldier is no way equivalent to a 3/2 or even 3/3 defence on a vehicle.

Also both the quad 50 and brixia mortar are artillery units with 4/4 defence. In fact the brixia can be used with the Romanian Commander for 5/5 defence.  (Yes not good, but you could do it).

[GrimJesta]

I scored that Romanian Commander guy in my only set III pack, and I absolutely freakin’ LOVE the guy!

-=Grim=-

[Der Leiter]

He’s not too bad for his points, and nowhere near as bad as the Italian Commander.

I think the best commander of Set III though has to be the French Bold Captain

[Rikolus]

Hey Der Leiter,
    Just noticed the two 4 defense Artillery you mentioned.  In honesty, we haven’t had a good look at Set 3 yet, so the comment that Artillery has a 3 defense was based on sets 1 and 2.    One thing I did notice about the few new pieces I saw, including the Bofors L60, is that the stat card was on GRAY colored stock.  It looked liked is belonged with the Axis!  Was there some kind of print-run error?  Does anyone else have Allied cards on gray paper?
    By the way, very nice job on the Unit Reviews.  Very helpful.

[GrimJesta]

Yup, my Allied cards are on a near-grey too. No green for me.

-=Grim=-

[argarus]

@Der:

@Rikolus:

Some good suggestions guys, altho I would again just go back and compare stats.  It seems like all the artillery are 3 defense, so it’s no worse than others (sIG 33, not THAT’s terrible defense… and 15 points!). But the amount of dice the Bofors rolls and distance it shoots makes it extremely dangerous against advancing infantry, strong against weak tanks, and all while providing great air cover, just in case your opponent spends double the Bofors cost on an airplane.  For 9 points, I cannot imagine not taking it.  I guess I am just surprised because this becomes about the first unit I have ever seen that would be logical to take under virtually any circumstance.  And what I like about the game is that while people can have their favorite units, or have units that they prefer in certain circumstances, there has not been (at least from what I have seen) a piece that is so strong that it demands to be in every force.    I hope to see some play at our local shop where it doesn’t have a particularly good game, just to prove my assessment wrong!

The 3/3 defence on a soldier is no way equivalent to a 3/2 or even 3/3 defence on a vehicle.

Also both the quad 50 and brixia mortar are artillery units with 4/4 defence. In fact the brixia can be used with the Romanian Commander for 5/5 defence. (Yes not good, but you could do it).

The QUAD 50 is 4/4 but the BRIXIA MORTAR is only 3/3

[Der Leiter]

@Rikolus:

One thing I did notice about the few new pieces I saw, including the Bofors L60, is that the stat card was on GRAY colored stock.   It looked liked is belonged with the Axis!   Was there some kind of print-run error?   Does anyone else have Allied cards on gray paper?
     By the way, very nice job on the Unit Reviews.   Very helpful.

There have been some changes to the way they’ve been printed (well, ok that’s obvious) including different card and colours. All the new cards will be looking like this.

Also dissapointingly the information I was given about the Brixia was wrong  :-( only 3/3 defence.

[Rikolus]

Do you know if this was a print error, or intentional?    I don’t understand why they would change colors; totally illogical.

[Der Leiter]

This happens in a fair number of games actually, though I’ll admit it was a bit more of a dramatic change for AAM.

Look at Magic: The Gathering. When they release the Mirage Set the cards where very different in texture (very waxy).

It’s not a print error, it’s just the way the cards are going to be now.

[GrimJesta]

I agree that it is annoying. The colors are too close to the Axis grey now. Yea, it’s a small thing but it’s a small thing that annoys me. Oh well, any [cencored] is moot since this is the way it’s going to be from now on. My beef with it means that my opponent knows that I’m taking a set III unit now since the card looks radically different from the other sets. Since we only have 1 set of Set III, they can easily guess which units I’m taking and take a counter unit or three.

-=Grim=-

[Der Leiter]

@GrimJesta:

I agree that it is annoying. The colors are too close to the Axis grey now. Yea, it’s a small thing but it’s a small thing that annoys me. Oh well, any [cencored] is moot since this is the way it’s going to be from now on. My beef with it means that my opponent knows that I’m taking a set III unit now since the card looks radically different from the other sets. Since we only have 1 set of Set III, they can easily guess which units I’m taking and take a counter unit or three.

-=Grim=-

I just use coloured protectors for the cards anyway.  Though I colour-code mine, which can at least give away the nation(s) I’m playing, you could simply put them all in ‘black-backs’ or whatever uniform colour you prefer.  Personally the back of the card does very little for me anyways; it’s just a larger picture of the stat side art.

[GrimJesta]

I didn’t know they made card protectors that big. I need these. I want A&AM to the a game I one day show my grandkids, so I want my cards in good condition. Card protectors are the way to go.

-=Grim=-

[GrimJesta]

@GrimJesta:

I didn’t know they made card protectors that big.

See that kids? That’s why you don’t let your momma drop you on your head too much when you’re a baby. I thought (for some reason) that the AA&M cards were bigger than normal playing cards. W00t to me. Where’s my white helmet?  :roll:

-=Grim=-

[argarus]

as a allies player 8 out of 10 games played i don’t see the problem with it.  :evil:  yea its evil and cheap and evil and very cheap.  but i found that my buddy i play with, moves in with paras and tries to take out the bofors during round 1 and 2.  leaving his planes for round 3 and on.  he actually has done very well with that approach.

[Rikolus]

Good Idea, actually.  Will have to give it a try too.

[Der Leiter]

Paratroopers, Armoured/Scout Cars, even Heavy Tanks firing AI at it all work well.  I’ve found the best units are the bikes and polish cavalry.

The trick is not to let the Bofors get it’s points worth or more, so don’t expose units unnecessarily to it.