- With regards to “rational etc.” well, God provided the Bible, and Jesus provided his followers with the commission to preach the gospel to all people, making the Word understandable and reachable to everyone. The non-scary equivalent to voice in the sky. At the same time, several people on this forum have indicated their disgust/hatred for missionaries who are trying to do that “necessary condition”
Like the bible was rational… all religion can give you myth of equal valor. If God was a little cleaver (if he does exist he his not), well he would have make him visible for all kind of people… Rationalist like me, faithfull follower like you and Empirical people… to give everyone equal chance. But that is not the case, you need faith and some people have different cognitive system, i, for exemple, don’t believe only in what i can see, but in what is rational. Why god would make himself invisible to people that are using a different intellectual approch if he is all powerful ?
- We humans rely too much on our rational thought processes - Ours, not Gods. It’s child vs. parent type stuff (i’d keep going, but you get my idea, and i have to go biking now!)
That is horrible… You want me to let a little guy not even able to make his existance look plausible take the lead of my life ? Well i have more will, and letting an irrational god take control of my mind would be rather foolish… Why not letting Cernunnos ? What you just said is so inconclusive… we should let god think for us, but we don’t know which god is the good… if you were before a Polytheist he could say exactly the same thing; “we should rely more of cernunnos, not on logic”…
@CC:
- We know God’s plans for those ignorant of his word. I’m working on the assumption that those people are touched by the Spirit in some way, and also given a kind of “choice” - but i really have NO idea what happens when that happy little man from Papal reaches the “pearly gates”. Again, i’m working on a compassionate just God hypothesis, rather than the angry evil arbitrary one.
Well then, I hope you are right.
@FS:
Rationalist like me, faithfull follower like you and Empirical people… to give everyone equal chance. But that is not the case, you need faith and some people have different cognitive system, i, for exemple, don’t believe only in what i can see, but in what is rational. Why god would make himself invisible to people that are using a different intellectual approch if he is all powerful ?
As important Athiest have said before, it is grossly unfair to punish people for not believing in God either because they have not been exposed to His teachings or because of errors of reasoning.
To Moses and especially Finsternis,
The Bible says something about those who desire to see something with their own eyes before they believe it.
“From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities– His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.” Romans 1:20 NLT
But this doesn’t help you at all, because you don’t believe in the correctness of the Bible… so here’s one for you. Set aside all religious texts, all memories or knowledge of organized religion altogether… and find a good spot in nature somewhere so that it’s peaceful and quiet. Talk to “any general God who may or may not exhist,” and ask Him to prove to you who He is. Wait for an answer, but do not look at events, looking for a “sign.” Gods says that ALL who earnestly seek Him will find Him.
Seeking out God with all that is in you is a wise move. If there were a God, wouldn’t you want to know it? If He doesn’t show up, then He simply doesn’t exhist.
“From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities– His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.” Romans 1:20 NLT
And I will read to you an explanation from Quantum Physics that not everything has to have a creator and certainly not an intelligent one.
@TG:
“From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities– His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.” Romans 1:20 NLT
And I will read to you an explanation from Quantum Physics that not everything has to have a creator and certainly not an intelligent one.
TM, you are a study of contradiction… one day i wish you will explain me your vision of Religion and Economy. You, a theist, destroyed the only “logical” argument for god.
But this doesn’t help you at all, because you don’t believe in the correctness of the Bible…
Why should i look at the bible and not book about the tooth fairy ?
and find a good spot in nature somewhere so that it’s peaceful and quiet. Talk to “any general God who may or may not exhist,” and ask Him to prove to you who He is. Wait for an answer, but do not look at events, looking for a “sign.” Gods says that ALL who earnestly seek Him will find Him.
That’s, as always, something only someone infested with religious belief can say… just like the whole “i feel god” thing.
But i now know that i want to feel him when i felt him, i was weak, and all these sign were ridicoulus, when i was a teen, sometime i need to get some sign so my faith could still be over my reason. I ask god for a sign, i always get one. But with more reflexion, now that i am not a theist, i just see how ridiculous (read Pathetic) i was. I was my sign, i was attentive to thing around me and i create my own sign; i ask god many time for sign, and he answer me. An illusion, inside me, answer me.
Seeking out God with all that is in you is a wise move. If there were a God, wouldn’t you want to know it? If He doesn’t show up, then He simply doesn’t exhist.
My search for god is ended, now i am a militant Atheist and a Humanist, i will devote my life to my science, my species, my family. I search for him, he was not there, any mind that really want to know if god exist, with minimal knowledge and logic; will get an answer.
TM, you are a study of contradiction… one day i wish you will explain me your vision of Religion and Economy. You, a theist, destroyed the only “logical” argument for god.
(Assuming you ment TG) What I will say is that my religion keeps me quite happy - one where I can work for the benifit benefit of society and not its hindrance (much like communism). So there, you have my two visions on religion and economy. At any point you can call me a theist though that is a bit misplaced.
Quote from FinsterniS “Why should i look at the bible and not book about the tooth fairy ?”
LOL… Ahh the classic tooth fariy dis. Thats good.
Dis the tooth fairy again and you’ll feel the wrath of Yanny!
Hmm…I disagree.
Not everyone is doing the all the crap that you pointed out. I don’t agree with it, and I sure as hell don’t participate in it.
I completely disagree with your apathy (maybe disregard) for a God. It’s pretty sad (and blatantly obvious) that you have so little humility as to think that you have as much power as God. It’s one thing to not believe in God, but it’s a whole 'nother to think that you have replaced him. Is it that hard to have faith in something? We may not have the scientific evidence that we are all reliant upon for evidence of a higher power, but is it too hard to comprehend that there may be something bigger and more powerful out there…than you?
I feel pretty sorry for you. That’s all I’ve got to say.
first of all deviant, there is no apathy nor contempt towards god because there is NO god for me. gos never existsed in the first place. god ONLY exists as a concept, an idea, which has long been rendered obsoulete in this age of science and technology. furthermore, he/she/it has been fabricated in a mythological fantsay saga called the “Bible”, Koran, the Torah, etc which isn’t anymore valid in regard to seeking the “unanswerabe questions of life, or the life beyond” than J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy or Robert Jordan’s “Wheel of Time” series–which i may add is an awesome fantsay saga. Another thing, and this maybe beyond your little feeble Christian mind’s ability to comprehend, but God was never REPLACED because there wasn’t a god IN THE FIRST PLACE! we (as individual human beings) are ALL our own Gods in our own right. (When i say god is dead though, i mean it is dead as a concept, like an idea for a new Axis and Allies game being flatly rejected by the people who make the axis and allies games.)
Is it that hard to have faith in something?
Well anyone with a fourth of a brain mass would come to the realization that “faith” is totaly futile. Just because we HOPE for something does not mean our wish will have any affect on something in the end.
As a good christian im sure you’ve heard the phrase, “Jessus only helps those who help themselves…” don’t you find that INTERESTING thats the case? that ‘our lord savior HolY Christ’ will only help the poor, foodless mother in Afghanistan feed her children if she gets thhe food herself? Come on man! this is irrational and just plain ridiculous! IF YOU WANT SOMETHING DONE THAN SCREW THE FAITH AND GET IT PHYSICALLY DONE!!!
Look, we all live in this great nation America and one of the tents of the Bill of Rights is that we may worship whatever we want. If you want to be a Christian, fine, do what you want! I personally have nothing against christians untill they attempt to shove thier ideology and religious babble down peoples throat (i also have the same contempt towards people of ANY religion who are responsible for indoctrinating people against thier will) but i do hate the christian religion. if you dont like that–too bad. not everyone in this world is going to agree with your religion–i sure as hell dont.
and another thing, the only person you should feel sorry for is yourself. you have been infected with the “Christian’s Disease” which makes those infected with the inability to see things logically and enslaved to a fabrication that eventually leads to a life of hypocrisy, intolerance, close mindness, and inability to make good judgements
I sense a lot of ill malice here. For the Christians, they think it is their mission to spread the teachings of Christ. Just as I, an A&A player, think it is my duty to spread the teachings of “Don’s Free Eassys” and TM’s and My “Theories on ATB.” I don’t see much of a problem in it, as long as it isn’t forced.
I have faith in what I can touch, feel, and see. I have faith in myself and the people around me. I do not have faith in what some 2000 year old power hungary meglomaniacs thought up.
eyeless_9mm,
I’m sensing a lot of anger from you. There are some great relaxation techniques available for people with that kind of anger.
Also i appear to be one of those people with 1/4 brain mass. It’s amazing what willpower and talent will get you these days . . . . :D
“I’m sensing a lot of anger from you.”
God will accept you even if you won’t. But if you are not happy without God, then it might be hard to be happy even with him.
“I do not have faith in what some 2000 year old power hungary meglomaniacs thought up.”
I do not think the people who started the church were power hungary meglomaniacs… at least I hope they were not. But remember, there has never been something so old that it was not new and something so new that it will not be old.
Ok, then I declare my offical Religion Jedi. Its regonized in Australia as an offical religion with 78,000 members.
@cystic:
eyeless_9mm,
I’m sensing a lot of anger from you. There are some great relaxation techniques available for people with that kind of anger.
Also i appear to be one of those people with 1/4 brain mass. It’s amazing what willpower and talent will get you these days . . . . :D
@9mm:
Well anyone with a fourth of a brain mass would come to the realization that “faith” is totaly futile. Just because we HOPE for something does not mean our wish will have any affect on something in the end.
I agree with 9mm, you do not need to have a big formation in Philo/Physic/Math to understand why god is an incoherence. But this is not only a problem of intelligence, because i am sure CC have all he need to be atheist, but for some it is clearly impossible, they don’t have the will to make a rigorous look at god. And anyway, so much people believe like them it is far easier to follow. God does not exist, but people prefer to live with a lie, it’s easier than to live alone… We don,t need a lot of thinking to understand why religion is all pink for the believer, they will be saved, eternal joy, eternal life…
Also it is very, very hard to admit that all your life you talk to something that does not even exist.
Ok, then I declare my offical Religion Jedi. Its regonized in Australia as an offical religion with 78,000 members.
Good. Now be one with the Force.
God does not exist, but people prefer to live with a lie, it’s easier than to live alone…
You can’t prove that God doesn’t exist…any more than I can prove that he does. So don’t be so sure of yourself.
Also it is very, very hard to admit that all your life you talk to something that does not even exist.
Again, the only way we can truly know if God exists or not is to die. Not many ways to admit something once you’re dead, 'eh FinsternisS? That’s probably the more rational explanation for why people don’t admit it.
@Deviant:Scripter:
You can’t prove that God doesn’t exist…any more than I can prove that he does. So don’t be so sure of yourself.
ta ta ta…
You can’t prove the tooth fairy does not exist
You can’t prove Odin does not exist
You can’t prove Kami does not exist
You can’t prove Trolls does not exist
But, i image you do not believe in the tooth fairy, you do not believe in odin and you do not believe in Kami… Why ? Because you have not a single reason to believe they exist… and i can assure you that if they were of any use to calm down people like god is, people would believe in the tooth fairy and in trolls…
There is some rules in science, we do not claim the existance of something if we have no reason to. Note that i never said we cannot believe in something that is not proven, for exemple Telepathy. The problem is that everywhere God is; in the creation of the universe, in the creation of humanity (et cetera), there is a logical, rational explanaition. But often people choose easy answer, even more if the answer is as golden as god, i mean, living an illusion with god give you so much hope, eternal life, eternal joy, no need to think if something is wrong; god say it for you.
So… i cannot be 100% sure god doest not exist, that would not be rational, but i believe that he is as probable as the tooth fairy…
By law Australia has to accept any religion where over 10,000 people as it during a census. I believe this means federal funding )
@Deviant:Scripter:
You can’t prove that God doesn’t exist…any more than I can prove that he does. So don’t be so sure of yourself.
ta ta ta…
You can’t prove the tooth fairy does not exist
You can’t prove Odin does not exist
You can’t prove Kami does not exist
You can’t prove Trolls does not existBut, i image you do not believe in the tooth fairy, you do not believe in odin and you do not believe in Kami… Why ? Because you have not a single reason to believe they exist… and i can assure you that if they were of any use to calm down people like god is, people would believe in the tooth fairy and in trolls…
There is some rules in science, we do not claim the existance of something if we have no reason to. Note that i never said we cannot believe in something that is not proven, for exemple Telepathy. The problem is that everywhere God is; in the creation of the universe, in the creation of humanity (et cetera), there is a logical, rational explanaition. But often people choose easy answer, even more if the answer is as golden as god, i mean, living an illusion with god give you so much hope, eternal life, eternal joy, no need to think if something is wrong; god say it for you.
So… i cannot be 100% sure god doest not exist, that would not be rational, but i believe that he is as probable as the tooth fairy…
One can’t be sure that I didn’t wake up this moring with a horn in my head.
However, from our understanding of SCIENCE, everyone knows that I did not wake up this morning with a horn.
I can’t prove God exists, but from my understanding of/in science,
I belive he/she does not.
