RR: Does it help the Axis?

[Wild2000]

:lol:

[TG Moses VI]

I coulnd’t of said it any better :smile:

[Zero]

I think RR does help the axis. Primarily it helps Germany because at the start of the game the German forces are not in ideal positions with lots of opportunities for the Russians to kill German aircraft or Navy.

With RR, the German ships in the Baltic survive to G1 to help in the attack on the UK fleet which helps protect the Luftwaffe from heavy losses.

One bad thing about RR is it makes a Japan First Strategy hard to implement, since it prevents the Russians from participating in the first turn.

[DarthMaximus]

Also with RR it allows Ger the option of attacking Cauc on G1, instead of retaking Ukr, you can try to make Cauc the “trading territory”, depending on how Cauc is defended of course. If Cauc has 1-4 inf in it, Ger can send in anywhere from 3-5 inf (2 from SE w/amphib assualt) and 1-3 tanks. This forces Russia retake Cauc because she can’t afford to have any of those units swing south. Then Ger could have 4 inf 2 tanks and a plane in EE and Ukr and maybe 1-4 inf and 2-3 tanks in Cauc, and I don’t think Russia can take back 2 territories easily on R2 and this is a much better scenerio than Russia already in Ukr and bottling up Ger. So I think RR does help the axis, maybe not a lot but it is a help.

[TG Moses VI]

Usually I would advise against taking the Caucasus (even when only lightly defended) because I can’t risk losing that 1-3 armor to a Russian counterattack.

[Zero]

I don’t like the idea of a G1 assualt on Caucasus either. It overextends the german armor too soon.

Caucasus is key to Germany breaking Russia’s back. If the Germans manage to have a Med. fleet on turns 4 or 5 they can land 4-6 inf in Caucasus. This inf can be supplemented by inf pushing up through Persia from Africa to hit Caucauses on the same turn. The resulting German stacks on E.E. and Caucasus can turn Karelia and Ukraine into a Deadzone for Russia, by forcing Russia to commit hvy forces to Moscow defense. If Russia attacks Caucasus, then the E.E. stack will take Karelia. If Russia doesn’t attack, then the combined stacks will take Karelia next turn, or worse, the E.E stack will advance toward Caucasus, while the German fleet continues to pump inf into the stack. Most fun.

[DarthMaximus]

If Cauc is lightly defended (1 man), I wouldn’t bring in tanks and with RR, Ger would have an extra ftr somewhere to use. Also when I play the allies one of my first goals is to eliminate the Ger navy at all costs (you can’t have Ger cont to pump troops into Afr) So I wasn’t counting on having a med fleet for that long.
I also don’t like to waste Ger tanks and are very reluctant to move them into battles where I won’t get them back and I usually perfer to take out all allied ships but this is on of my alternative strats where I push hard toward Rus with both Ger and Jap. It forces Russia’s moves, and it is still key to take out US/UK transports on G1 but other ships are ignored if possible. I just find with RR Ger can’t just sit back and defend Ukr and EE without attacking a lightly defended Cauc. b/c on R2-Russia has at the very least 15 inf 3 arm 2 ftr at its disposal and can take Ukr or EE at will in Rd2 and I just think that is too early to be defensive with Ger.
With Cauc in Ger hands Rus must take it back or be forced to defend both Moscow and Kar (hard to do). Also I like to bait Rus into using her tanks to take back Cauc, then I can pick off her offensive power. And if you are able to take (trade) Cauc on G1 and on G2 then by G3 (assuming you buy all inf) you can have 8-10 inf in EE and Ukr then you can take Cauc with a sufficient force to hold. Again, I just think a defensive Ger early on is bad, you can always fall back and defend EE with all you got when things go sour but the amount of troops Russia has on rd2 with Russia restricted just invites an invasion of Ukr or EE with overwhelming numbers and Ger may not be able to take it back.

[ This Message was edited by: DarthMaximus on 2002-06-14 15:30 ]

[Candyman67]

To me, it seems as if Germany starts off the game overextended without even conducting any attacks (lots of armour but few infantry). There isn’t enough infantry to absorb the hits and to hold the territory from a counterattack. If it’s not in the bank, I never attack Russia on turn one. Conservative, but will have favorable repercussions for Germany.

[Field Marshal]

The Allies could have a significant fleet parked at Western Spain as early as turn 3 even with heavy Allied naval loses in turn 1.
This ferries units to Africa, Spain, or WEU. It forces Germany at least another turn or 2 fortifying WEU, GER, and SEU. This forces the Ukraine trading to stop in favor of the Allies. The Axis need co-ordinated mutual attacks on Russia. This could delay or eliminate this…

[TG Moses VI]

Yeah, Japan should always be nipping at the heels of Russia.

[city on a hill]

RR helps Germany because it insures that the Luftwaffe will be available for attacking British naval units instead of Soviet tanks.

[TG Moses VI]

And it saves you at least 1 ARM.

[Corporal Punishment]

So we’re all in agreement? RR helps the Axis? That’s what I think as well, but if anyone disagrees I’d like to hear why. My reasoning is very simple - Russia can easily take out Manchuria and Ukraine or Finland on R1. If they aren’t allowed to attack then they get less $$ and Axis have more units to work with round 1.

[EmuGod]

If you’re playing the computer version then it doesnt really matter. The computer as USSR isnt very good so Germany doesnt need RR in order to win the game.

[TG Moses VI]

Well I don’t think Manchuria is that much of a problem (I’ve posted this before, and found out the Manchurian invasion is a big no-no. However, Finland provides a no-brainer in favor of RR since Russia risk almost nothing in trying to take it.