@Eggman:

@MinusCelsius:

I don’t mean to talk down to you if you’re an expert at this game, but certainly NOT AT ALL COSTS. Cairo is just a naval base and 2 IPC/turn.

I would disagree due to the fact that it’s a VC, and arguably one that it will take the Axis the longest to take if they simply wait until Russia is totally gone before they make a play for it.� If the Allies make it too easy for an early grab at Cairo, then the game will be essentially over right as Moscow falls since Volgograd will likely have nothing in it.� Unlike games in which the Axis let Cairo be their last VC, in which case a large stack of units probably awaits them.

Leningrad is a different story, since it’s impossible to hold it without gravely weakening the defense of the other Russian VCs.� The Allies can make sure they try to hang on to Cairo as long as they can, in this case, it will actually help Russia, since the expense for the Axis fighting in Africa will mean less units available on the Eastern Front.

It’s not worth losing 40 IPC worth of guys to take 15 IPC worth of Italians off of Cairo. This is an expected fight on IT2 without British mediterranean intervention in the OOB 1e: EDIT: I’m not allowed to post links, imgur / vbNAKDn.png, it shows a battle scenario calculator with the max defensive pull to Cairo against an expected Italian full force engagement on Cairo without mediterranean intervention (so double transports landing on Cairo, along with the airforce remnant, assuming ITA’s turn 1 buy replaces their losses in paris), so with most of the italian fleet intact. Expected losses are 42 IPC for British and 17 IPC for Italians with a 99.9% Italian win. Minus the bombardments, you lose about 22 IPC and still don’t hold Cairo. The 42 IPC army can be a strong anchoring force and allow the British the threat to take back Cairo.

Either you don’t understand the point I’m trying to make, or I’d love to play against you for money. To reiterate, it sucks to have to give up Cairo, but it sucks worse to lose your army as well. If you can’t make a good defense, just retreat. “At all costs” defenses just lose games. Also to reiterate, if you understand this, then refer to the text you quoted.

@capnstak:

So what I am guessing for Africa at least is to save Egypt at all costs. Send troops from South Africa north, troops in the East sent west and fall back from Cairo.

I don’t mean to talk down to you if you’re an expert at this game, but certainly NOT AT ALL COSTS. Cairo is just a naval base and 2 IPC/turn. Don’t lose sight of the overall objectives of the game. It only matters as a victory condition if the Axis have 7 others. 2 IPC a turn is quite a bit (4 pt swing), but fighting out a decisive battle, you could lose 10 or even 20 relative IPC to your opponent and you still lose Cairo. Losing Cairo is one thing, but losing Cairo and your presence in Africa is probably the game right there.

If your army is alive in Africa, you can: 1) Force him to defend Cairo and 2) Continue to control the rest of Africa. He might have a bigger army, but he can’t use it for anything productive while he’s anchored to defending Cairo. If he throws in a lot more resources, maybe he can take South Africa, but it’s going to take a long time and he’s throwing IPC away from Russia, away from the US beaching sites, and away from a direct threat at the UK. As far as I’m concerned, that’s Allied profit.

This applies to any capital, but particularly Leningrad and Cairo and particularly for the Allies. If the Axis want it, they can get it.

@Commando:

I would buy 1 AC & 2 Trans on Turn 1 w/Germany instead of 1 AC, 1 DD, 1 Sub. Invade Scotland Turn 2 w/Germany w/3 Inf & 3 Art. Turn 2, build 10 Trans w/Germany. Turn 3, attack UK w/forces in Scotland and 10 Inf, 9 Tanks & 1Art. Even w/max build up in UK, you should take UK w/3 Tanks. I will say SeaLion is not best strategy for Axis. You bring the US into the war one turn early. Meaning, normally US can’t move until Turn 4 because they come into the war on the Collect Income phase of Turn 3, unless they’re attacked first. Best strategy for Axis is attack Russia Turn 2. Attack UK navy Turn 1. Keep UK navy down by threatening w/German navy & airforce. Take out Brit navy in Med Turn 2 w/German airforce to help Italians out. Have Italian tanks & mech help Germans w/one,two punch. Plow through China w/Japanese to get to Russia. Bomb Russia w/Japanese SBR’s and German SBR’s.

I assume that we’re talking OOB 1940 Europe?

The 2x AP buy on G1 is too committal and the advantage is illusory. If you lose any of the sea battles, you’re stuck with 2 useless transports for a full turn. Like you lose a sea battle, then they block 112. You could commit your carrier and try to fight it out, but they could maybe even kill your Carrier with the 3 planes from England and still get the blockade. If you can force your way through the blockade, you’re still planning a G3 Sea Lion, but you’re 100% committed to it since before you throw the first die.

Alternatively, if you win all your Sea Battles (or the important ones, anyway), having the DD and SS won’t hurt you. They can clean up survivors, help the invasion of Russia, bombard England, etc. They at least force US to trade even IPC to remove them. Don’t worry about not invading Scotland. Sea Lion is still unstoppable with a G2 full-transport buy even against a full infantry buy.

It’s weird, but literally the last game I played, the German player found himself in a world of hurt with the exact same plan you have. He committed 100% to that Sea Lion plan (I think he was even planning to beachhead Scotland, same as you drew out), but ran face first into some bad dice. He wiped out my whole navy basically without losing a single unit, except a stubborn BB/DD who killed the sub and two of the 3 planes attacking them and forced the retreat. I don’t know what the calculator says, it’s probably 5 or 10% that I get that outcome, but he has to go through 4 fairly similar sea battles where he has a big edge, but a single die roll can turn the tide. It’s probably like 50/50 or better than England survives with something or inflicts enough casualties that you have to pull back. He also had bad luck in Paris, he lost all of his infantry and some of his APCs.

Anyway, his navy at that point that could get to 112 was a surviving Cruiser, the carrier he bought, and the transports. He quickly did some math and he actually couldn’t stop me from blockading 112/killing everything (if he stacked 112). If he left his transports in 113, they all die to a single plane flying overhead (I just have to buy a carrier or move the gibraltar one to 112). So he was forced to put all his purchases in 113. Again, to emphasize how committal the two APs are, if he bought a DD and an SS, he could have just plopped everything in 112 and he’s safe. He not only has useless units instead of aggressive units, but his useless units have to be protected from air raids. That buy basically forced him to concede his Cruiser on 112 and give my otherwise-bereft-of-duties Royal Air Force a nice target.

UK1, I had an interesting choice. Noting his loss of ground units in Paris, I decide to dare the Sea Lion, full build infantry, blockade 112, and wipe out the Italian fleet (using a plane from England, and committing the Gibraltar fleet. I could have made Sea Lion extremely hard before G4 by bringing the Gibraltar fleet up at that point, or at least a DD in 112, but I decided to focus on Italy and accept Sea Lion. Dice were successful, everyone else plays pretty clean, and it wraps back around to G2 where it’s already looking like a likely allied win. Germany has three serious tactical problems it needs to handle in order for Sea Lion to work out.

First: Italy needs help in the Medit IMMEDIATELY. If I get a turn with my navy in the Medit, I’m cleaning up the rest of Italy’s navy at least, maybe even wiping out his presence in Africa, getting my fleet to a safe location where it won’t come under Luftwaffe fire, and/or blockading Italy. Cairo is lost to the Axis if any of that happens and he has exactly 1 turn to hit the combined fleet.

Second: He needs to be ready with a high percentage Sea Lion for G3. There will be an AA, two fighters, and 20 infantry on England. That means about 9 or 10 fully loaded transports, plus the Luftwaffe need to come take England. Without being able to double load his transports on Scotland, he’ll have to buy 5 or 6 more transports.

Third: He needs to clear the blockade in 112 without taking a hit on the carrier. Carrier tips? Planes leave and he loses all his transports, gg. It takes 3 planes, plus the sub to crack that blockade. He absolutely, positively, can’t take a hit on the carrier. Again, with the DD/SS build… well, I mean, it’s not even comparable because there wouldn’t even be a blockade on 112. But even if there WAS a blockade, he could clear it with just the fighters from the carrier no problem, no risk.

I’m beating a dead horse at this point, but if he builds an SS and a DD turn 1, this is all unnecessary. He’s not even committed at all to a Sea Lion, he could just call it off and Barbarosa while wrecking England’s economy with the blockade and forcing the United States to build a Navy. And if he wants to go ahead with Sea Lion, he can’t be blocked, even if the Gibraltar fleet heads north, Sea Lion still happens on G3.

What was tried in the game (and I think it was another inaccuracy by Germany), he postponed attacking Russia, sent all his Luftwaffe to kill the combined allied fleet, and successfully cleared the blockade with 3 planes. The Luftwaffe vs. French and UK navy was actually an uphill battle, I believe I was rolling more pips than he was. I refused to tip my carrier throughout the early rounds. This was a mistake. I should have just tipped my carrier on the first hit. I thought if I did, he would pull back and keep his Luftwaffe mainly in tact, and I wanted him to commit more (noting that I was winning that fight). Planes could have landed in Malta and I go before Italy, so I could have still accomplished all of my strategic goals: Wiping out the Italian Navy, plus defending Cairo. Instead, I lost the battle (bad luck, too, I guess), but the Luftwaffe was so wrecked that on G3, he nearly lost Sea Lion. He beached with 9 transports and his surviving Luftwaffe, which was nothing. The pips were very close throughout the fight. He got London with like 3 tanks, but it was so Pyrrhic that Germany couldn’t make progress against Russia. Even with the production kick from killing me, he didn’t have anything. Axis threw the towel in on G5, one of the shortest games I’ve ever played of any A&A, and especially with decent players.

The german player was complaining about his rolls in Paris, and he’s right, it was a pretty bad fight, but it’s not unbelievably bad. When you attack without any air support, you actually lose all of your APCs half the time, and you lose all of your arty as well 25% of the time, so his roll wasn’t even THAT bad. It was a bottom 25% roll in a big fight, but like… it happens.

I thought he made a catastrophic mistake buying the two transports, though. They just sat idle, and in fact were an extreme tactical liability because they could die to airstrikes. Their existence anchored all of his plays in the Mediterranean and he even lost his Cruiser straight up because he was tactically outmaneuvered by his own purchase. Their presence, somewhat ironically, made Sea Lion less of a threat and allowed me to blast Italy with my turn 1. If he’s threatening total naval dominance immediately, I’m given a very tough time about what to do with the Gibraltar fleet. If I take it up north, he can call off Sea Lion and play a “normal” A&A game, wresting naval superiority from the British and forcing the US to build crap to survive. If I go to the Medit, Sea Lion is wide open and I might not even inflict many casualties to Germany before going down.

I mean, I can’t even see the upside to the 2 transport build. If you win every naval battle, the threat that you could drop 6 infantry in Scotland and then come back to ferry troops to England is not that credible. I mean, it saves you buying potentially 2 transports since you go double duty, so that’s great, but you need to have the tactical opportunity to beach Scotland and come back to ferry troops from Holland/Belgium on G3 without risking your transports. I think in all likelihood, your G2 buy would be a combination of Navy and Transports anyway, so why not just build the Navy first when it has max flexibility and buy the transports second when you’re ready to go Sea Lion?