Technology

@Emperor_Taiki:

@allboxcars:

@molinar13:

Whats wrong with paratroopers :? I have been actually thinking of making specific sculpts for them myself by using spare pieces.

Instead, in terms of someone taking a territory with a paratrooper I think Arnhem is a better demonstration of the limitations of an airborne assault.

Right, and two attacking infantry probably wont be able to take a territory unless they are assited by ground forces, thats why this rule is realistic and awesome!

Here is exactly what larry said on the new paratrooper rules as it is misquoted above.

@Imperious:

LH 9-18

I can tell you this… There will be Paratroopers. They will be one of 12 techs (which are all pretty close to the Anniversary game’s techs.)

I call out Paratroopers because they have been radically changed from that tech in Anniversary. Infantry (up to 2) can be flown, to join an attack, if that location is within a 3 territory/sea zone range. They don’t need bombers or any other aircraft representation. They must however be on a territory with an airbase.

Sir I stand corrected. I was unaware of that change. :oops:
Thanks!

@molinar13:

In earlier games I played with paratroopers were they had a first strike capability. Just like a submarine execpt for paratroopers. DO you think this would be a good or bad addition? Even though they were not stealthy they did strike fast and hard at the enemy.

Honestly, I’d say no and I’d reverse your last line.
Operationally they do achieve surprise when they put boots on the ground in unexpected places.
However, unlike a sub (or sub pack) which operates cohesively, paratroops usually hit the DZ in such a dispersed manner and take such time to rally and assemble that its like herding cats. If I recall correctly, the fallschirmjaeger in Crete didn’t even drop with their personal weapons; they were cannistered separately.

In game terms, simply there’s no consistent ability to spring into formation level offensive actions faster than the defenders can react.  More like chance platoon-coy scale engagements way below the scale of the game until relieved by straight legs.

@molinar13:

Very true points you are giving. However I think your scenarios would play out better for a much smaller scale than A&A. After all we all know that by the time your able to capture a third of a country by taking a territory on the board map your troops would have long already been rallyed together. I like what you are saying, infact your scenarios are what really happened in the real world. However just for a the games sake I think paratroopers make a good edition because not only do they historically accurate but I believe they are a scale that is right for the game

Well that’s my point.  The scale of the game is too grand to give the paratroopers any surprise bonus or really any enhanced lethality.

So I have to lean towards this new rule that ties them to working in concert with standard land units.

And the paratroopers are used to “join an attack”.
Not conduct their own.
I think that’s a major change.

I hope there is a tech for AB or NB, there’s a lot you could do there. Allow ports to have some type of reverse naval bombardment. Air strips could allow scramble to adjacent sz even when not on an island.

Advanced art could give your inf +1 on def (like it does for attack). Maybe only against an ampib assault.

Adv art could allow you to fire your two preempt (no return fire) or into adjacent tt.

@WILD:

Adv art could allow you to fire your two preempt (no return fire)

that seems reasonable, artilery gets a 2 or less preemptive fire on attack and defence, in my opnion advanced artliery represents powerful weapons like the German 88mm and the Soviet Katyuhas so this represents their long range firepower well. Tac Bombers have even longer range than any kind of artillery(obviously cause their aircraft) aswell as the weapons to easily elimnate point targets so if one side has a tac bomber they then negate “advanced” artillery’s preempitve strike like a destroyer negates a sub’s preemptive strike. This also keeps advanced artillery from obsoleting infantry.

You bring up a good point with  the AB and NB techs, but what would that represent historically, the 12 tech should be the 12 technolgies that were most influencial in determining how the war was fougth. I dont really like imporving AB since they are already very powerful and if they increased range anymore they would be doing it beyong what was histrocialy possible. NB imporvement makes a little more sence, perhaps their could be a tech called “Fueling Ships” and ships can move 4 instead of 3 spaces when they start next to a NB.

Rockets - AA Guns may conduct strategic attacks on Industrial complexes 3 territories away, these attacks may not be intercepted

Heavy Bombers - Your Strategic bombers roll two dice when conducting strategic attacks, during combat they roll two dice and choose the best result

Increased Production - Your Factories repair at ½ cost, Reduced cost for some land units (TBD)

Jet Fighters - Your Fighters and Tactical Bombers attack preemptively during combat

Paratroopers - Your Airbases may serve as launch points for up to two infantry who may move to any enemy territory within 3 spaces during the combat move phase only

Super Subs - Your subs attack on a 3 or better

Radar/Sonar - Your AA fires at a 2 or better, also your destroyers fire preemtively when attacking submarines

Advanced Artillery - Your Artillery supports 2 infantry on the attack

Heavy Armor - Your tanks have either their attack or defense raised to 4, players choice. You may not recieve this tech twice or change your choice

Long Range Aircraft - Fighers and Tactical fighters have their move incresed to 5, bombers move is increased to 7

Improved Shipyards - Reduced cost for Naval Units (TBD)

War Bonds - Roll a die during your collect income phase and collect that many more IPCs

Like Larry said……most of the same from A&A 50

@oztea:

Rockets - AA Guns may conduct strategic attacks on Industrial complexes 3 territories away, these attacks may not be intercepted

Heavy Bombers - Your Strategic bombers roll two dice when conducting strategic attacks, during combat they roll two dice and choose the best result

Increased Production - Your Factories repair at ½ cost, Reduced cost for some land units (TBD)

Jet Fighters - Your Fighters and Tactical Bombers attack preemptively during combat

Paratroopers - Your Airbases may serve as launch points for up to two infantry who may move to any enemy territory within 3 spaces during the combat move phase only

Super Subs - Your subs attack on a 3 or better

Radar/Sonar - Your AA fires at a 2 or better, also your destroyers fire preemtively when attacking submarines

Advanced Artillery - Your Artillery supports 2 infantry on the attack

Heavy Armor - Your tanks have either their attack or defense raised to 4, players choice. You may not recieve this tech twice or change your choice

Long Range Aircraft - Fighers and Tactical fighters have their move incresed to 5, bombers move is increased to 7

Improved Shipyards - Reduced cost for Naval Units (TBD)

War Bonds - Roll a die during your collect income phase and collect that many more IPCs

Like Larry said……most of the same from A&A 50

I hope not,

your jet figher tech seems like something out of genesis, i dont see the connection too WW2

The sonar rule is too messy, although I admit i cant think of anything better for sonar however much i think it should be reprsented in the game.

War bonds and advanced artillery are still there and unchanged.

Choosing if your heavy tanks attack at 4 or defend at 4 is interesting, although choosing your tech is out of place in a randomly determmined tech scheme; it would be better if other techs had multiple options too. I would just have heavy tanks defend at four to keep it historical.

@i:

and there were jet FTR in wwii ever heard of the ME262 :-D

:lol:, i understand there were jet fighters in world war 2, i was remarking on how oztea’s (and AA50’s for that matter) rule dosnt reflect what jet fighters were or why they were developed.

Yeah, your hit accuracy is always 100%. Every time you conduct a bombing run, it is automatically 6 damage for each plane.

I gave preemptive attack for jets because fighters attacking at 4 would make tactical bombers useless
tactical bombers attacking at 5 would be preposterous
jet fighters defending at 5 would be retarded

what does a jet do for fighters exactly? what does it enhance?
their speed, their speed vs propeler aircraft
so attacking preemtively shows how the germans used their jets, in near supersonic, neckbreaking dives into bomber formations.

Any other bonus would get out of hand

sonar is there because Radar is a bum tech for some powers (Japan, US) so you get SOMETHING out of that tech

war bonds cant be changed, adv. arty? Rerolls misses for itself during the first combat round? i dunno

Attacking at 4 or defending at 4 is a comprimise, you dont raise the cost, you get one or the other, either a king tiger, or a t-34, or a something we never heard of

Sonar is already represented via DD advantages vs subs in the rulebook.

@oztea:

what does a jet do for fighters exactly? what does it enhance?
their speed, their speed vs propeler aircraft
so attacking preemtively shows how the germans used their jets, in near supersonic, neckbreaking dives into bomber formations.

Jet fighters were great intercpetors, so they should intercept on at 3 or at 4 during SBR instead of at a 2 . Aircraft are bordering on overpowered when they atttack as it is.

I like the preempt (deadly shot) for jet ftrs on attack or def (w/o modifying their values). It shows they were faster, and wouldn’t get hit if they destroyed the enemy first. It might be reserved for ftrs only. It could also work for SBR on either side, who ever has JF would fire their one deadly shot before the dog fight, and the enemy doesn’t fire back if hit. The only problem would be if both sides have JF in a SBR, then it would cancel each other out as they would fire simultaneously. The other thing to consider in a normal battle is that if a JF deadly shot took out the ftr or tank that a tac was paired with it wouldn’t get its 4. I agree that raising the attack of ftrs to a 4 would undermine the use of the tac, and 5’s would be crazy.

The only other thing that might make sense is to allow JF to target their prey if they hit, instead of preempt shot.

I like that you didn’t nerf the HB in SBR. That way at least the reward might out weigh the risk.

@Emperor_Taiki:

Aircraft are bordering on overpowered when they atttack as it is.

Well I think the problem is that the effectiveness of AC cannot be set to one fixed simple value and then applied equally to its myriad tactical applications: strafing dug-in ground units, battling other AC for air supremacy in the airspace over a land-battle, or engaging surface vessels on open water.