What will be wrong with AAAE: 1940?

My guess is that we won’t find out until a couple of days before it’s released.

@Brain:

My guess is that we won’t find out until a couple of days before it’s released.

A couple days before?  Really?

@SAS:

@Brain:

My guess is that we won’t find out until a couple of days before it’s released.

A couple days before?  Really?

We are in for a treat then!!!

Okay I just checked the WOTC site and not only is there no info regarding AAE40, but they still list AAP40 as upcoming. Somebody needs to update that website.

“The French Fleet was ranked 4th or 5th in the world at the time, the set-up might only be a shell of what it was to factor in the losses due to UK attacks or ships held at Vichy ports after Paris falls.”

Well, to give you an idea of why the disposition of the French fleet might make a difference, the list below is my best guess (I spent some time researching it) about actual fleet strength around May-June 1940:

(Abbreviations:  BB=battleship (includes battlecruisers), CA=heavy cruiser, CL=light cruiser, DD=destroyer, CV=carrier, SS=sub)

US:  15 BB, 18 CA, 19 CL, 118 DD, 7 CV, 112 SS    (+2 more BB built but undergoing sea trials, and 4 more under construction.  Also had a CV and 15 DD under construction)

Britain (includes ANZAC, Canada, etc.):  16 BB, 21 CA, 49 CL, 214 DD, 6 CV, 78 SS    (+1 BB built, and 5 more under construction.  +8 more CL under construction, with 6 of those almost finished.  +7 CV under construction, with 2 of those almost finished.  Also 65 more DD either under construction or in the process of being transferred from the US under Lend Lease)

France:  8 BB, 7 CA, 11 CL, 70 DD, 20-30 SS    (+2 more BB nearly built).

USSR:  3 BB, 4 CA, 2 CL, 68 DD, 218 SS    (+2 more BB under construction.  Note:  Many of these ships were leftovers from the Tzar’s navy, and had not been modernized or properly maintained).

Germany:  4 BB, 7 CA, 6 CL, 26 DD, 240 SS    (+1 CV and probably a couple of hundred SS under construction)

Netherlands:  5 CL, 12-14 DD

Japan:  10 BB, 18 CA, 20 CL, 108 DD, 8 CV, 68 SS    (+2 BB, 2 CL, 15 DD, and 6 CV under construction)

Italy:  6 BB, 9 CA, 13 CL, 59 DD, 146 SS    (+2 BB, 4 CL, and 1 CV under construction)

Now, obviously, if you wanted to convert these numbers to A&A, you couldn’t use a 1-1 ratio, unless you had, like, 10 extra sets of playing pieces (or a whole lot of poker chips).  But somehow the starting forces in the official A&A rules seem a bit TOO abstract for me.  What I was thinking was to convert them as follows:

1 Battleship represents 2 real BB (BB divisions tended to be 2 ships in most navies, and the number are small enough to be do-able)

1 Destroyer represents about 15 reall DD

1 Carrier represents real 2-3 CV.  (Carriers came in different sizes.  I’m thinking 1 carrier equals the capacity to operate 120-150 aircraft)

1 Submarine represents about 60 real submarines.  (Subs had to rotate back to a base or sub tender for resupply more often than other ships)

Cruisers are a bit trickier.  I’m thinking add up the total number of cruisers for each fleet (with a CL counting as 3/5 of a cruiser), and dividing by 5.5.  This should mean you have enough playing pieces for every navy (when combining AAP40 with AAE40), if we assume one of the British cruisers is ANZAC.

So the starting fleets, under the above scenario, would look like this (with a bit of fudging to account for the differences in quality between navies):

US:  8 Battleships, 5 Cruisers, 8 Destroyers, 4 Carriers, 2 Subs
Britain: 8 Battleships, 8 Cruisers, 12 Destroyers, 3 Carriers, 1 Subs
ANZAC:  1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers
France:  4 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers
USSR:  1 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 5 Destroyers, 2 Subs
Germany:  2 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 2 Destroyers, 4 Subs
Netherlands:  1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer
Japan:  5 Battleships, 5 Cruisers, 8 Destroyers, 4 Carriers, 1 Sub
Italy:  3 Battleships, 3 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers, 2 Subs

Oh, yeah.  I’ve been a wargame geek since around 1981  :-)  And I worked in military intelligence in the army for 10 years (I’m still in the National Guard).  I’m working on land and air forces next  :evil:

@almashir:

US:  8 Battleships, 5 Cruisers, 8 Destroyers, 4 Carriers, 2 Subs
Britain: 8 Battleships, 8 Cruisers, 12 Destroyers, 3 Carriers, 1 Subs
ANZAC:  1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers
France:  4 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers
USSR:  1 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 5 Destroyers, 2 Subs
Germany:  2 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 2 Destroyers, 4 Subs
Netherlands:  1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer
Japan:  5 Battleships, 5 Cruisers, 8 Destroyers, 4 Carriers, 1 Sub
Italy:  3 Battleships, 3 Cruisers, 5 Destroyers, 2 Subs

Nice job almashir, so I was right France would be ranked 4th-5th in the world before Paris falls. I still think the French fleet (blue) will be diminished at the games start to show what the allies actually ended up with, and it will be used mostly for def posturing by the UK (can’t replenish). The Italian/German navies will probably get a boost for game play (as they normally do). You could look at it like “what if” and part of the French fleet is factored into the axis navy, because there is no Vichy rule to do so. Also due to the fact that France goes last, there may not be much navy left. Germany will have first shot at taking out both French and English ships (as always). The UK will only be able to shield them from Italy (move UK ships to sz w/French ships ).

Thanks, Wild Bill.  These force strengths were not just the result of what each nation could afford.  Much of it had to do with the Washington and London Naval Treaties (plus The Treaty of Versailles for Germany), which set limits on tonnage, gun size, total number of ships, etc. The treaties were largely abandoned by most nations in the 3-5 years leading up to the war, but, given the lead time required for building capital ships, the treaties still heavily influenced the starting forces.  You’ll notice France and Italy are almost at parity, for instance.  And Japan was allotted a much lower total tonnage than either Britain or the US, since it didn’t need a separate fleet for the Atlantic.

Yea I know about the limits placed on ship building after WWI, and how these treaties were ignored leading up to WWII.
I agree with the real starting navies you have researched (have seen similar #'s). I see how you calculated the starting navies for each power, but I think you may want to re-figure the starting surface ships for the game. I would start with cutting your #'s in 1/2, them go from there (+or-). I can’t see any nation having more then 2 BB’s on the board, with the exception of maybe UK (3) to start. We already know what the starting navies will be (Pac 40) for Japan, and Anzac. We also know about 2/3 of US, and 1/3 of UK.

Yes, you are definitely right if you want to keep the scale as close as possible to the official rules.  I kind of strayed off topic, and probably should have posted this over in the House Rules section.  I’ll have to do some playtesting to get it right.

I’ve done something similar before, but on the Xeno map, which has fewer territories than AA40.  I converted the World in Flames starting forces to Axis and Allies with a Dec. 1941 start date. It worked pretty well, but I figured out I needed to cut the number of aircraft in half.  The Lufwaffe sank the bulk of the Royal Navy, which was sitting in the English Channel, on turn one, which pretty much crippled Britain for the rest of the game  :|  The problem is that fighters in A&A are more powerful than their counterparts in WiF.  In WiF aircraft can heavily influence the outcome of a land or sea battle, but they generally can’t win it outright all by themselves.

@cminke:

you shour put some thought into that dident you!

He put more thought into it than you did on your spelling.

@Brain:

@cminke:

you shour put some thought into that dident you!

He put more thought into it than you did on your spelling.

I really don’t understand how people can have such horrendous spelling.

@bennyboyg:

@Brain:

@cminke:

you shour put some thought into that dident you!

He put more thought into it than you did on your spelling.

I really don’t understand how people can have such horrendous spelling.

Spell check and free online dictionaries don’t even help.

@Yoper:

There isn’t a Vichy France rule, so you aren’t going to have a scuttle/go Allied/go Axis kind of mechanism for the French navy.  As such, you end having to come up with a set up that may not be historically accurate, but is balanced for game play.

Can you tell us anything about the French navy yet, Yoper?
Even in the most general way, so as not to violate your non-disclosure agreement…
‘It’s big’ or ‘It’s small’; ‘It’s spread out’ or ‘It’s in a stack’ would do for now.
Really, any kind of your thoughts–personal speculations included–on this would be helpful, as we’ve never seen the French represented in the game before, and have no idea what to expect.
Cheers, MIR

Let me see if I can answer your questions:

General Description
Some shade of blue depicting WWII ships.

Big or small?
The French navy will be represented by plastic playing pieces of which the size will be similar to other nations.

Spread out or stacked?
Once the game begins that will be your choice.

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

@Brain:

@cminke:

you shour put some thought into that dident you!

He put more thought into it than you did on your spelling.

I really don’t understand how people can have such horrendous spelling.

Spell check and free online dictionaries don’t even help.

Says the guy with a run-on sentence on his side quote.  Hyphens are not periods… :roll: lol

@LuckyDay:

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

@Brain:

@cminke:

you shour put some thought into that dident you!

He put more thought into it than you did on your spelling.

I really don’t understand how people can have such horrendous spelling.

Spell check and free online dictionaries don’t even help.

Says the guy with a run-on sentence on his side quote.  Hyphens are not periods… :roll: lol

Grammar and punctuation don’t count.  You’re allowed to screw those up. :-P

@LuckyDay:

Says the guy with a run-on sentence on his side quote.  Hyphens are not periods… :roll: lol

I wasn’t allowed enough characters to do it the way I wanted.

To the guy with no space between the two words in his user name.

Why did braindamaged close his account?