No one is mentioning what Italy is doing.Sending as many mech and tanks east to can-open ahead of German forces is popular.
Its good to battle the brits all over the med.Its more rewarding for Italys income level.My mistake is trying to do both,and not succeeding at either before the American wave arrives in SZ 91.
Operation Sealion a Possibility with AA1940 Europe?
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Any attack by Japan on US will be seen long before it arrives and the US will be able to respond with their large income.
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I would think that a combined US income might provide a bit of incentive to keep Japan from making a J1 attack in the Pacific. Especially in light of potentially giving the US a 60-70 IPC income boost. I can’t wait to try the combined game. The only real debate with my gaming group is do we play Europe alone a few times first or just jump right in.
Hell, I would like to see just how they balance the Global game more than anything. Or unbalance it. Who would want to play Europe by itself anyway?
Europe and Pacific by themselves just seem like the Axis powers have objectives spread out at the extreme corners of the map, and lack any real reason to concentrate their forces at any particular area for long. Since the Allied powers don’t have attacks coming from the opposite sides of the map, any moves they make are somewhat scripted and lack any real decision making (compared to Global). In the Pacific campaign, Britain HAS to attack Burma and French Indochina with land units. Britain doesn’t have to worry about Italian or German units coming through Persia or the Suez as a second front. Not much room for different builds.
The most fun part of Axis and Allies is seeing Japanese and German troops meet up in the Causcasus and hold off Russian counterattacks. Or Italian carriers, German planes, and what’s left of the Japanese fleet come through the Suez to stop the Allied fleet off Italy. Teamwork. If you start rolling crappy as Germany in AAE40, you can’t expect Japan to come through India and save the day for you. With only one (or two, if you think Italy is a power) Axis sides in Europe and Pacific the game is not going to be as fun.
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Shameless bump.
Ok, so the split income in AAE40 will be the UK, now a Sealion looks better than ever before if the European UK only starts with 25-30 IPCs and the rest go to India’s IC (Commonwealth player?).
Guess we’ll see how viable it is with the position of the British fleet at game start and how the SZs are placed/organized.
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I think Sea Lion will be more viable than it ever has been in A&A before (barring mistakes by the UK/Allied player personal experience), especially with the German sub and Russian trade NOs LH has revealed. The potential problem will be how the Allied naval position looks in 1940: Italy will be no help with being stuck in the Med by Gibraltar, extra sea zones between Germany and UK (Baltic will be 3 sz itself), and with whatever extra navy UK gets plus the new French navy, Germany might still have some major issues just getting to the UK to start with…
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Mostly I hope the devs put in enough balance where Axis fleet builds in the Baltic can give Italy sufficient time to take over the Med and be a significant thorn in UK’s side, if nothing else. Should prevent all naval builds by the UK and force them to build some land units, just in case.
A combined 1-2 punch with Germany and Italy against the UK on Round 2 should be an interesting play. If the Axis can get or maintain naval superiority in the Atlantic before the US enters the war…
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The potential problem will be how the Allied naval position looks in 1940: Italy will be no help with being stuck in the Med by Gibraltar, extra sea zones between Germany and UK (Baltic will be 3 sz itself), and with whatever extra navy UK gets plus the new French navy, Germany might still have some major issues just getting to the UK to start with…
Maybe the French have a BB and destroyer which will join the UK when Paris is conquered. Or a penalty for Capital German warships could be created. In the real war Hitler had minor interest in a huge German navy.
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I would think the RAF will be a force to be reckoned with, although it can’t scramble from England (unless Larry’s holding out on that). UK could pull in more nearby air if it needs to. Keep in mind that the Germans would have to sail out of the Baltic into an expanded North Sea. There will be several sz for the UK to block movement w/DD (stall). I suppose Italy might be able to send up a few ftrs to can opener for them (plan ahead), but the UK player should see a potential sea lion coming. If Germany starts building transports in the Baltic (don’t think they’ll start with enough) that should be a pretty good clue.
The only surprise would be if Germany got paratroopers (global) and was able to use them right away. That could swing a potential sea lion big time if all of a sudden Germany could para from like 2 AB in Germany, 1 in France, and maybe 1 in Norway. Hell w/4 AB (8 inf) even if Germany had to wait a round to use para it could possibly pull it off. Of course I don’t know how many AB Germany will have in range at start, but it could build some as well.
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Now that UK has to split it’s income with India, Operation Sea Lion may become more viable.
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Was reading a thread where larry said that if Russia isn’t at war by collect income phase on the 4th turn i believe then she will be at war with Germany. So this means 4 turns to gear up fo a sealion ,and crush France .!!EDIT!!- in the FAQ pg.3 reply #43
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Possible Sealion in E40- of course- if you want to lose.
It will be possible- probably not very winnable though.
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Possible Sealion in E40- of course- if you want to lose.
It will be possible- probably not very winnable though.
:-)Care to expound on that comment.
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Back in the days of Revised there was a decent “Sealion” gambit going around. I believe Larry made sure this time that the Sealion gambit could be possible but not w/o serious repercussions. Best to ask him on his site though.
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Well that option only existed because of the possibility of a high bid for Germany ( buying a transport), and adding the existing tech rules that allow developments to take place on the turn you successfully rolled for long range aircraft.
The number of spaces to invade England from the AAE40 setup for German naval would preclude this option. This would be based on Larry’s commentary regarding how out of range British air forces are from the German fleet on G1
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@Imperious:
Well that option only existed because of the possibility of a high bid for Germany ( buying a transport), and adding the existing tech rules that allow developments to take place on the turn you successfully rolled for long range aircraft.
The number of spaces to invade England from the AAE40 setup for German naval would preclude this option. This would be based on Larry’s commentary regarding how out of range British air forces are from the German fleet on G1
Well, that means a G1 Sealion like in Revised is out, so UK gets some time to prepare at least.
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If there are 3 (or more) SZs in the Baltic and English Channel between that of Germany and England, not sure how well Sealion will play out. At the least it will be nice for Germany’s fleet to not be harassed by UK air round 1. But, it’ll take two turns at least for Germany’s starting transport (I’m guessing only 1 at start) to get to England, not even counting the other necessary transports that will be needed (4-5+…). Plus all that fleet will need protection as well, so a lot of money sunk into carriers and planes too. All that HAS to reach Britain somehow by turn 4 before the US enters the war, and I’m sure there will be some sort of counter to it that either forces Germany to attack US forces before turn 4 or ends in a UK/German fleet stalemate.
Germany could probably industrialize some coastal territory off France/NWE and stack its navy off of it; but it’s still going to be expensive and impractical. A factory could have better options: it could build more land units instead to hold France in case the Allies build a naval superstack in response to a potential Sealion.
G1: Build fighters and bombers and a major industry. Deplete the starting UK fleet where you can, take out Paris and coastal France. Move the starting fleet one space where it’s closer to England but not in danger of air attack. Possibly reinforce Norway with transport. Place the industry on the coast in range of England, but not where it can be invaded.
UK1: Might freak out from possible Sealion, might decide to build all fleet or all land units or land/air. Would definitely re-group whatever sea units it has left and rebuild; where stack is regrouped and how reinforced it is determines Sealion strategy. Hopefully Britain moves fleet into position to retake Africa away from Italy/Germany. Places units, crucial step; if they are separated or weak enough Sealion can be a go.
I1: If Axis see an opening for Sealion here, Italy can be the fall guy and sacrifice his fleet weakening the UK fleet off Africa, maybe try taking Gibraltar depending on UK strength. Otherwise do a standard I1 opening taking Malta or attacking Egypt.
G2: If UK doesn’t reinforce itself enough or puts units in wrong places; build naval superstack with shiny new major industry using looted French IPCs, carrier, subs, 3-4 transports, etc., stack Baltic fleet on top of it, watch British player cry. Use air units to finish cleaning up France and stack enough inf and tanks for invasion on the coast.
G2 contingency plan: If Sealion looks like its gonna get raped from either two turns of all land unit builds or UK fleet battle successes; build infantry with the coastal factory and start invading Russia with the starter Baltic fleet by re-inforcing Norway and Finland or attacking Leningrad. What the hell, Sealion was worth a shot.
Pros: Sealion, obviously. Hopefully over by G3. What Axis player wouldn’t want to start WWII with two allied capitals in German hands?
Cons: Might end up with a superfluous major industry on the coast that will need to be protected from raids. If Sealion is close, might have England taken back by US player, or you might just lose outright due to crappy dice in an evenly sided battle. But hell, you have to win from die rolls anyway as Axis, so might as well get it done with early in the game.
Also, UK is not out of the game people! The split UK income/power Commonwealth thing may mean UK can easily take back England or may be capable of reinforcing it to lucridiosity with planes from various foreign locales. It may very well be that the UK cannot be held after a few rounds when the US enters the war.
The THREAT of Sealion, at the very least, however, can make things much easier for the other Axis powers in their respective fronts by forcing Britain to pull units back, so the placing of a major industry is not a total wash for Germany.
What do you guys think? Not sure if I’m good with the new AA40 ruleset either, it might not be possible for Germany to place a major factory off the coast like I suggested.
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Eh… nevermind. Looks like it takes two turns to build a minor IC and upgrade to a major IC… Will take too long and will be faster to just build transports in the Baltic and run them in.
Invasion by turn 4 is also asking for it with Britain, way too much time for it to pull back all its units and for Germany to be distracted from Russia.
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In the end I feel that just as it would have been in real life, an incredible amount of luck will be needed to successfully execute. It can be done, but probably with odds of one in ten. But that’s just my guess, could be better, could be worse.
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In the original A&A game, my Germany turn #1 was dedicated to eliminating the UK fleet and beginning my attack on Russia. Never gave Sea Lion much of a thought. I am wondering now how feasible it was. I am thinking it was not or I would have tried it.
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I think that a sea lion could be possible for Germany rd #3.
G1-take Paris, and the French Atlantic coast (should be a minor IC on coast).
G1-attack/destroy the UK fleet (as much as possible)
G1-roll for tech-(paratroopers), but LRA could come in handy
G1-add to German navy/air (maybe a/c) in Baltic (should start w/BB and several support ships I hope)
G1-attack UK convoys that you can, and UK NO’s
G1-start ground march to Russia (to at least set-up def)It1-attempt to take Gibraltar and more of the UK navy
It1-start reducing UK $ in Africa/Mid East
It1-attack UK convoys/NO’s that you canG2-move German navy (with a/c) to French coast w/IC (English Chanel) (could also move to North Sea as Germany will have access to it with West German IC)
G2-position German air and left over ground units on French coast that just destroyed France to get in range and board trpts
G2-roll tech again (looking for paratroopers)
G2-SBR UK, to reduce UK $, and air force with escorts/interceptors, Germany may have superiority
G2-build 3 more transports on the French coast tt w/IC (or West German tt North Sea port) to put w/navyIt2-continue giving UK hell w/attacks and convoy/NO disruption
It2-maybe set-up a secondary Italian sea lion as well (just in case) if feasible or meet-up w/German navy if Italy took Gilb.G3- if it looks like you have a chance to take UK down, go for it. If not you can always back track through the Baltic to attack Russia. You could also go north and land in Scandinavia. So at this point you have options.
UK will be building through this process, and making counter attacks. A Sea lion attempt will ultimately depend on the starting strengths of the German/UK navies and air forces, or their ability to get superiority. Italy could play a part by getting to Gibraltar, and cutting off the UK naval reinforcements. I’m still not sure if you can pull off a Sea Lion w/o paratroopers.
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Germany could probably industrialize some coastal territory off France/NWE and stack its navy off of it; but it’s still going to be expensive and impractical. A factory could have better options: it could build more land units instead to hold France in case the Allies build a naval superstack in response to a potential Sealion.
What do you guys think? Not sure if I’m good with the new AA40 ruleset either, it might not be possible for Germany to place a major factory off the coast like I suggested.
SgtBlitz, from my understanding the French coastal tt will start w/minor French IC, and the Paris tt (land locked tt) will have a major IC. Germany will get them both very early on. Also West Germany will have access to an expanded North Sea, so it will be able to build ships in the North sea between Denmark and the Low countries (kinda reflects the Kiel Canal I guess). This will be cool, could even come with a North Sea port.
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