Operation Sealion a Possibility with AA1940 Europe?

Well lets just say it might have been different if I actually understood what he was saying. But since I didn’t, so what do I care about what he calls me in another language?

Well in any case you definitely did the right thing.

well in any case you definitely got off topic

Okay about the topic of Germany invading England…… Where were we?

It would have worked if he wasnt fighting a two front war. IF russia isnt a problem I think you can take out england.

I think a Sea Lion attempt may still come down to who gets control of the French fleet. If it stays w/allies, if it is scuttled, or if Germany has a chance to take part of it over. If the axis (and thats a big if) gets naval superiority in the Atlantic (remember US isn’t there yet). If Italy can take out Gilb through Spain or by amphib allowing its fleet access to the Atlantic. Axis should be able to add to its fleet in the Atlantic via French IC on the coast. Germany should also have its own coast line to the North Sea if the map is to be accurate. Of coarse a full scale Sea Lion will leave Italy weaker in Africa and the Balkans. It will also allow Russia time to bulk up. Taking out the UK early would defiantly set the allies back. It would be some time before what was left of Britain & France could come together and make a liberation attempt if at all. They may have to wait until the US enters the war. I would think that a successful Sea Lion would bring the US into the war.

Taking out UK would also set the Allies back.

It ohh yeah it would make things a LOT easier for germany. then they could focus on russia

Yeah so back to seali…oh look a bird!

idk about that. That axis are outnumbered Germany can and will crush france. but after that you have a huge dillema. Attack the USSR, who will be building up a force to crush you, or step in and stop the landing bad for the allies. Africa wont be the sterotypical “two fights determine who gets it dealeo” Italy is going to have its hands full. Remember Larry ditched the “vichy shit” That extra 8 IPC that is normally sooo easy to grab, wont be that way. Its going to be a race, a huge race. Not a buildup. If tha Axis stop pushing they start getting sqeezed. America makes a TON in this game. It shouldnt be a WWI knock down fight, Unless you plan to lose. AND not have fun. you can still build a minor IC in africa and torment the little italian guy.

Ok guys sorry about the last post, I was well….distracted lol.

But I think we should instead implement victory cities, just as cities are the lifeblood of economy and manufacturing so shall they be the lifeblood of a power. I think we use historical powerhouse economic centers for VC’s in the game, and every one has a IC of course. The territory that the VC is in has an IPC value and only that will be lost if the VC is taken. The country can still fight on regardless if Moscow or Stalingrad were taken, just as they would in real life. Also another bonus would be that we can shorten or lengthen games based on how many VC’s there are on each side. We could either do total war where the Allies fight until they are annihilated or the Axis as well. Then from there we could scale back the game to fit everyone’s time needs; some people have only a weekend with maybe an hour a day to play to be able to finish a game while some people play 12 hour sessions, finishing multiple games in that span. So with this we can all finally play a game that could fit anyone’s time requirements. Also we could still do the game in a traditional manner and if two allies fall Axis win and if the Axis all fall then allies win, regardless it all works out, everyone is a winner!!!  :-D

you are still off topic

No Aldertag, this is on topic, they are debating the importance of taking over capital cities, which is what could happen if Operation Sea Lion is a success.

Actually idk about that. The UK is divided into two territories now. Idk if London is in the top or the bottom half.

It’s on the bottom half.

@SgtBlitz:

K, so…

Consensus is that taking capitals DOESN’T get you all the fallen side’s income, plus DOESN’T knock the opponent out of the war (i.e., we want the person playing France to do more than get drinks for everyone the next 90% of the game…)  So, seeing this, it may NOT be in the Axis’ best interest to shoot for the capitals at game start with these rule changes/additions.  Maybe Paris, but definitely not London.  If the UK is getting 40+ IPCs at game start taking 8 IPCs for the capital will barely make a dent in their production, even with losing a turn’s worth of IPCs and needing to build factories elsewhere.

Operation Sealion is definitely not a possibility then.  Only if there was some rule that allowed the Axis to change history by seizing the French fleet at Marseilles intact or allowing the Germans to invade/garrison Spain to strike Gibraltar would it even be barely viable economically.  Otherwise the risk in building fleet and transports just isn’t worth the cost.

So, perhaps starvation, limitation of resources would be the only viable strategy; i.e., the traditional Axis and Allies game where the Axis gradually tip the world’s IPC balance in their favor over many many turns?  With this mindset in place, the game will definitely end up being another dragged-out game of attrition that will play pretty much the same as all our old games…

BLEH.

The Sgt. makes some great observations.

As to the idea of the capture of capitals, I wonder that since the new games have 2 types of factories, that to both keep powers in the game longer and to still give some interest to capitals, which are often victory cities as well, what if the capture of a capital:

• did not take you completely out
• did not sap all your IPCs
• did limit you to building only minor ICs and
• turn any other ICs you own into minor ones.

In the case of Sealion, the topic at hand and such, this would give Germany a valid reason to go after London as it would cripple Britain industrially but would allow Britain to still retain some play ability as they seek to both help the Allies and liberate London.

If Britain started with 40 and lost 8 for London on G2, they still have 32, not a small amount.  But what can they build and where?  South African Complex maybe, but it’s a minor.  Canada? would have to be minor?  Anzac and India in a Global game would be separate and a minor, respectively.
Britain’s still in, but they are a long way from their former glory.

Germany has gained more than just 8 IPCs as well.

As to the thought of France and Vichy, I’d still love to see something about Vichy territories going to the Axis with a Paris takeover, whether set or by die roll.

That is exactly what I was saying. With only VC’s and no capitols we can see games where London can be taken and knock out much of the UK’s income but not eliminate them from the game. Same for Russia. Think about it, would the UK or Russia really quit if their capitols were taken? NO! They would fight until everything at their disposal was exhausted, thus my reasoning that a power fights until it loses all of it’s IC’s (located at VCs) and all of it’s forces are destroyed as well.

Thats how I have actually always played. however in group games the person that loses thier capitol typically loses the will to play the game, and it isnt fun anymore.(try UK without its major Capitol tell me how fun THAT goes for you) You can play that way, however it would only be enjoyable in one on one games.