i think there needs to be two coastal territories that dont include Paris, to better reflect the Cherbourg (Dieppe + Dunkirk) vs Normandy + Atlantic Coast cannundrum. Also a territory in the south, (Vichy) as a location for Operation Dragoon and for the Italians to invade(Represents Vichy Government in the long run). And a Maginot area that makes Germany have to take out the Netherlands to force the allies to defend two territories rather than 1 from blitzkreig. If its going to take more than one turn to fall, and its going to be fun to take back, it has to be 5 territories.
France and UK start with enough in France to defend 1 territory solidly, but not two. They can pull back to Paris….if Germany doesnt crush both locations turn 1, but it devovles into a WW1 Situation.
Guidelines To Making a Three Territory France: Vichy France, Western France, and Eastern France
1. Start with these historical demarcations as a baseline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:France_map_Lambert-93_with_regions_and_departments-occupation.svg
*Notice Vichy France does not boarder the Atlantic.
2. Draw a line that starts between where the Historical Provences of Brittainy and Normandy meet (around where the Normandy and Brittainy peninsulas meet at the tip of the Gulf of St-Malo) and runs aproximately 45 degrees clockwise from the horrizontal axis to Vichy. This will serve as the rough boarder between Western France and Eastern France.
3. Shrink Vichy France: The boarder Between WF and VF should start in the middle of the French-Spanish boarder and run roughly north toward Paris. This gives units in WF more room.
The Triterritory-Axis should lie aproximately in the middle of France, giving you three territories about equal in size.
*Note on Eastern France: the Pas-de-Calais should be part of Belgium to allow for two alternate Allied strategies:
A. Eisenhower’s Normandy landing to take France first, or
B. Patton’s Reverse Schlieffen Plan to land at Calais and make a B-line for Berlin
If you want more territories, add Paris:
the origional is also a good baseline:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/68400?size=original
However, like I said, the northeast territory should include all of the historical Normandy province.
West France is to act out the diversion landings on the west coast.
Calais should be grouped into Belgium-Netherlands.
So there are your five territories: VF, WF, EF, + Paris + Netherlands (Netherlands will play a big part on the Battle over France).
the origional is also a good baseline:
Thats not the original. LMFAO!
@Imperious:
the origional is also a good baseline:
Thats not the original. LMFAO!
… :-o
your right, it’s AAE Advanced. It’s your creation, right? +1 I wonder what it was doing on BBG for regular AAE? Anywho, my mistake.
Here’s the origional:
It’s your creation, right? +1
no but i think they got this map from a poster named “frog” where all ideas come from.
:-D
You may ask who is this Frog?
I will answer you. i have no idea.
Frog…… :|
Do I even want to know?
I still think that 6 and 5 are too many
At most 4, but 3 is better.
Also, i do think that paris should be taken on the first turn, this is 1940 after all.
Here is my second map
a bit off subject, but
IL, what is ur afilliation W/ the AAA web site? Do you make some of the games, or just promote it?
If Paris is taken on the first turn…and Germany likely gets the first turn…then why even have French forces on the board?
The Reason I prefer the map this way is three fold
1. The Battle of France……Germany can move units through the Low Countries, around the Maginot line, and eliminate British Re-enforcements. (Picardy, aka Ardennes Forest). A strong strike on the Maginot line can knock it out, or let it live, and watch it flounder trying to attack Picardy. It can pull back to Paris, (what they should have done) And draw the war out, so its best for Germany to kill it. The allies are left with a turn to panic, as Larry said “make decisions leaders made, for similar or different reasons”. Should the UK send the RAF to defend Paris? And leave itself near defenseless? Or, as they did…leave France to the wolves. Vichy exists for Italy to take…obviously Paris cant be in that territory too.
2. The Liberation of France…It was a huge headache for the Germans…where are the Allies going to land, Normandy, Vichy coast, Pais de Calles, The Low countries? What makes A&A Europe and A&A 50 so good is they offer more invasion options than revised, In A&A 1940, the bigger the better. Likewise during the Battle for Paris, the landings cant include the Paris territory, all that acward liberation mechanics, taking a factory and a VC from the coast.
3. The battle for Germany…The more territories between West Germany and the Paris territory the better…its bad taste for Factory territories to touch, it turns into an arms race, the Germans likeley having a 10 Unit IC, and the French might not be so fortunate. A giant Paris territory means units from West Germany can Liberate Paris in one move, and if the Paris territory is also a coastal territory, that means Germany can repulse a landing in France from its own soil, not fun in a larger scale game such as 1940.
IL, what is your affiliation W/ the AAA web site? Do you make some of the games, or just promote it?
Thats all me. Its a one man show since 2003.
I also do IMPgames.com and thewargame.com as administration.
oztea:
Pretty soon we should expect 3D modeling on how france should be done? You should post that on Harris game design. seriously.
Oztea I like your map i think the territories are right. And like you, I wish the game would start May 10th 1940 before Germany attacked and invaded benelux and france, but it does not, Larry said it starts June 4th. It confuses me why the game would start in the middle of the battle of france, but it seems like it does. The only reason I say this is that the German player would proabably then also start out controlling the picardy territory aswell as the low countires.
@Imperious:
oztea:
Pretty soon we should expect 3D modeling on how france should be done? You should post that on Harris game design. seriously.
Yeah, seriously. We should all be getting our opinions now before the Europe map can still be modified. I’llstart a thread on the Larry Harris forum if there isn’t one already under the “Talk To Larry” Seaction.
yes. make your case heard.
@Imperious:
I prefer france split like that picture. Make the coastal zones worth next to nothing and the invasion will have to be a real deal rather than 20 various probing fake invasions just to hijack IPC.
Wow. Obvious but true. I’ve always hated that about western europe in revised/original (and now AA42). So easy once Germany is on the ropes in the east for the UK to just nip in - snatch 6 IPCs and run!
@Imperious:
I prefer france split like that picture. Make the coastal zones worth next to nothing and the invasion will have to be a real deal rather than 20 various probing fake invasions just to hijack IPC.
Wow. Obvious but true. I’ve always hated that about western europe in revised/original (and now AA42). So easy once Germany is on the ropes in the east for the UK to just nip in - snatch 6 IPCs and run!
and for Germany to just snatch it back, get 6 ipcs, and run too
i’ve played a few games in AA50 with NOs where Germany would leave france completely undefended each turn starting on the first turn, so that they could send more units east to the russian front.
Actually, that gets me curious. When this game comes out, I’ll have to try being the Axis and not attacking France in favor of more units hitting moscow. Or just taking Paris, and only then going for moscow, while ignoring the other french territories that can’t be taken for free.
and for Germany to just snatch it back, get 6 ipcs, and run too
Yes france becomes a watering fountain for various birds taking turns bathing and drinking. Its a joke to have such a thing going on in a game and needs to be fixed. And its easy to do so.
One idea:
from another poster:
Blockhouse: cost 8 IPC against sea invasions it fires after SB at 2 or less against EVERY land unit in the first round only.
Against attacks from another land territory your land units defense goes up +1 every round.
Now your invasion will have to be real effort to hold france.
so the “official” stance of Larry that Dunkirk has happened has been interpreted as, the evacuation has happened 100% or, what would be more interesting is if the England territory started with only 1 infantry, 2 UK infantry were in a transport off the coast, and on the Picardy territory was a UK Tank, Artilery, and French infantry.
So Dunkirk has “happened”….just like it did, the preacious heavy equipment was left behind, for the wolves.
I will be very disapointed if Germany starts with units touching Paris, and just throat-punches France out of the war as the first dice are rolled.
Id rather the battle play out like the Alamo, the French know they are going to lose, they should at least take their time doing it…
For the French however, losing in style has never been en vouge, so to speak
I personally liked Oztea’s depiction, where France had five territories and the Med. and Atlantic were separated by two territories. Of course there could be many more added but I think for gaming’s sake this is the maximum number of territories that France should have while still being able to display the actual countryside accurately.
