Which would have been a better Ally to Germany?

Hmm… That’s a hard one.  I had to go with Turkey.  Hitler wanted Moscow as a prize so having an ally there just made sence.  But Spain would have to be a close second to help keep the allies out of Europe.

Edit:  Turkey would also be better because Spain is so exposed to the <edit>Atlantic<edit>.  Turkey is at Germany’s and Italy’s back door much harder for the allies to get to since they would have to go around.  Having a second direct path by sea to Russia would have been greatly desired by Hitler. End Edit.

LT</edit></edit>

lol, I assume you mean the Atlantic ;)

Yeah your correct.  I have probably explained this before.  I grew up in California so when I think ocean I think Pacific.  You would think now that I have lived in New York for 8 years I would break that habit and know better.  :-D

LT

Well since they were getting plenty of co-operation from Spain I would have to say Turkey. This would have allowed them entry into the Black sea without having to ship boats overland (they did that). It would have also allowed them more of a presence with their harassing operations in Iraq and Jordan.

Turkey.  Way to open new front in early part of war against United Kingdom in Middle East would be benefit.  Would make Russia front much longer splitting Russia to 4 Army groups not 3 but same number men available.  Would make easier for Germany to get oil.

definitely Turkey, new front on the middle east and Africa as well as a flanking position on Russia

Alliance with Turkey would have allowed the Germans to knock out British oil fields by blitzing into Iraq, Syria and Persia.  And then there that other front against the Soviets (which is another possible reason the Turks wanted neutrality–the Russians stomped them in World War I).  It’s a miracle the Turks made an alliance with Great Britain right before the war–otherwise the world might be very different today.

Very true re. the U-Boot possibilities offered by Spain.  But Spain would also be a pretty good place for the Allies to open a front–entering the war on the Axis side gives the Allies a good excuse to attack.

I voted Turkey for the same location reasons already pointed out. I think just having Turkey joining the Axis would have been better then both Turkey and Spain joining. Spain was drained after it’s civil war and could not hope the guard it’s considerable coastline. The drain on Germany to help guard this would have been a detriment. Spain not being known for it’s overabunance of natural resources would not have made this drain very beneficial.

Turkey because if Turkey were with the Axis they could….
1. Get soldiers to the middle east and possible take out Cairo
2. Help fight off the soviets
3. Stop many more or even slow down the allies in Africa so the allies might not attack Italy.
So these reasons would change the war completely.

@ABWorsham:

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another ‘Italy’. From my understand Turkey’s military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

Both the UK commonwealth and Russia were at their breaking point and then beat the Germans back, all the Axis needed was a little extra push in those theaters in order to win, which could have been provided by the Turks.

@ABWorsham:

What if Turkey joined the Axis and became another weak partner, another ‘Italy’. From my understand Turkey’s military consisted of infantry and artillery. With no tanks nor motorized infantry, Turkey would have trouble taking on the U.K and the U.S.S.R.

Good enough reason to stay neutral.

When the war began, Turkey excused itself from earlier security commitments to Great Britain by pointing out that France could no longer fulfill its treaty obligations, and that the treaty did not obligate Turkey to participate in a war involving Russia.  When Germany conquered Greece and Yugoslavia, war with USSR certainly became more likely.  If the Turks were tempted to join the Axis, they also had to take into account that German enemies could attack from all sides, and the German army wouldn’t be in the region forever.

I voted for Spain for a couple of reasons.  1st and foremost they could have than taken out Gibralter securing the Med.  Secondly the Uboats would have had more docks.  3rd More airfields would have left the shipping lanes in the Atlantic far more vulnerable to attack.  You add another 1000 miles westward into the Atlantic to scout for subs or just outright attack them by air yourself.

Had Spain joined and done this Malta would have fallen from no supply.  Troops in Africa I believe could have pushed up and threatened the Caucus from the south (hell of a supply line on that one though).  England would have starved and I believe it would have been invaded.  If you don’t have the oil/parts you won’t be able to send fighters up to defend.

Operation Barbarossa would have been post poned for a year while Sea Lion was fought (and won) by the Germans.  With no force in the west (And all the resources of england to help) to defend against Hitler could have moved everything he had against Russia in 42 instead of 41.  Which would have avoided the 41 blizzard.

It would have been a much different war, much more favorable to the Germans.

The biggest mistake the Germans made was not insisting that the Japs attack Russia.  That one thing could have won them the war.  The Germans would  have won the battle of Stalingrad if they had and pushed onto the Caucus.

I’d like to think the Allies would have had the balls to invade Spain if they joined the Axis.  But perhaps if Spain had joined back in 1940, then they would have had the time to build up their army with German assistance and build fortifications on vulnerable coasts.

If the Allies could break through on the Iberian peninsula, then that have diverted a substantial amount of German armor.  The Allies would also have had to deal with the experienced though weak Spanish army, but if they established a base in Spain perhaps they could build a Spanish army of their own.

It seems like a place where a clever Allied offensive might be able to capture a large body of German troops, assuming the bulk of the German army is still tied up in Russia.

Famous historian John Keegan wrote some years ago, that Germany’s best possibility to win the war, was if Turkey joined them.

• The Mid-East oil. Iraq was pro-Germany, and if Turkey was allied to Germany, then Germany would get the oil. They had already build the Baghdad-express, an railroad from the oil wells in Iraq to Berlin. Fuel would no longer be an issue.

• Nice base for attack on the russian oil-fields in Baku. See a map. Its a pretty long way from Poland to Baku, and this is the reason Germany lost. But Turkey is adjacent both to Baku and Georgia. During WW I Germany and Georgia was allied, and they would be friends again, if the germans could make it there.

• Controll of the Black Sea would have been decesive. During WW I, Germany and Turkey was allied, and german battleships was operating in the Black Sea, and supporting the german army.

• During WW I, the brits tryed to attack and occupie the Dardanelles strait, but the mountain terrain favoured the Turkey defenders. So finally the brits was annhilated and drained, and had to give up. Turkey is a fort.

If Spain had joined Germany, then Portugal would had joined the Allies, and then the Allies would have attacked and utterly destroyed Spain. And even if Germany had won the battle, what was the benefit ? No oil in Spain. No oil in UK. In 1940 UK was a little island short of resources, actually the brits was dependet on convoys to survive. So if Germany did conquer UK, they would only get 50 000 000 more hungry mouths to feed, and a poor island with a lot of fog. Only USA would benefit from a weak UK. So what would be the big idea ?

It would have to be Turkey.  Spain was to weak after the Spanish Civil War for a conflict of this scale.  Turkey would also giver the Axis bases in the south of the Soviet Union and in the Middle east.