What do we know of the -42 Scenario?

Given that the Italian fleet is still in its 1941 start position, and North Africa looks exactly like it does in the 1941 start position, I do not think that is the 1942 scenario at all.  If it is 1942, then the start for Italy and Germany in North Africa is identical to 1941.  It looks more like a hodgepodge of various possible unit moves and builds showing off the game mechanics.  And what is that deck of cards in the South Atlantic for?

@timerover51:

And what is that deck of cards in the South Atlantic for?

Those are IPCs.

Given that the Italian fleet is still in its 1941 start position, and North Africa looks exactly like it does in the 1941 start position, I do not think that is the 1942 scenario at all.  If it is 1942, then the start for Italy and Germany in North Africa is identical to 1941.

The Italian fleet basically stayed in port the entire war aside from a few sorties, so it stands to reason that its the same from 41 to 42.

Also, in the spring of 41 and the spring of 42, the african campaign was essentially at the same point. The battles went back and forth until August 42 when than ended.

The German forces are engaged in more than a few Soviet territories, so it assumes at least a turn or so of battles.

It could be the other scenario, but i see alot of German ships and in 1 year thats not justified based on what Germany produced.

@Imperious:

Given that the Italian fleet is still in its 1941 start position, and North Africa looks exactly like it does in the 1941 start position, I do not think that is the 1942 scenario at all.  If it is 1942, then the start for Italy and Germany in North Africa is identical to 1941.

The Italian fleet basically stayed in port the entire war aside from a few sorties, so it stands to reason that its the same from 41 to 42.

Also, in the spring of 41 and the spring of 42, the african campaign was essentially at the same point. The battles went back and forth until August 42 when than ended.

Pretty much what I was thinking.
@Imperious:

The German forces are engaged in more than a few Soviet territories, so it assumes at least a turn or so of battles.

It could be the other scenario, but i see alot of German ships and in 1 year thats not justified based on what Germany produced.

Germany’s surrounding Leningrad and pushing on Stalingrad and Moscow, were they not that far in mid-1942?  I seem to be less a history buff than most around here : /.  But again, it looks pretty much like the Revised set up as far as ownership/boundaries.

As far as the navy, I don’t see many more ships for Germany?  As I said, I would disregard that one down by Brazil as just sitting there and not part of the game.  Aside from that I can only really see 2 ships south of UK (same 2 subs as 1941 I think), the Baltic fleet (looks same as 1941 to me, maybe one more sub), and 2 ships by Gibraltar (trans+DD?).  That’s only an addition of one destroyer and one sub.  It’s kind of fuzzy up there and ground troops are in the way so I could be wrong.

And I’m not trying to force the belief that this has to be the 1942 setup.  I just seem to be more open to that possibility than you guys.

for German navy i see:

3-4 ships in baltic… looks like 1941 set up, plus the same 2 subs, but…

a transport and cruiser in the west medd and a Battleship off brazil.

It cannot be 1942 deployment. China would lose her LONE fighter even before China 1  :-P

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/362530
This may be it for the -42 scenario, but I’m not sure.

No thats 41 for sure.

@Perry:

Wow, that’s amazing. Then we truly do not know anything about the -42 scenario …? No pics, no setup information, and nothing has been revealed…?

Is it at least safe to assume that the Axis are worse off in the -42 scenario than in the -41 Scenario?

If they went with the situation as of June, 1942, the Axis would be in their best position of the war.  Germany would be pretty deep into Russia, Battle of the Atlantic in full swing, US still recovering from Pearl Harbor, and the Japanese would control Bornea, the East Indies, the Philippines, New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, and Burma, Rommel would be knocking on the door in the Mid East.  The big question will be the Allied starting units and positions, National Advantages, and Victory Conditions.  Does the UK player get more units in the Mid East?  Does the US player get another carrier, and a full complement of planes on the carrier, and what about the new battleships, cruisers, and destroyers commissioned in 1942?  Does the Russian player gets some tanks, as the T-34 started showing up in number in late 1941, and some aircraft?  What are the starting IPC for each country?

My expectations are that they will use June, 1942 for the starting positions of every one, but maybe give the Allies a few more units.  Very hard to say about the National Advantages, and if any techs may be assigned, like Radar to the UK.

@timerover51:

@Perry:

Wow, that’s amazing. Then we truly do not know anything about the -42 scenario …? No pics, no setup information, and nothing has been revealed…?

Is it at least safe to assume that the Axis are worse off in the -42 scenario than in the -41 Scenario?

If they went with the situation as of June, 1942, the Axis would be in their best position of the war.  Germany would be pretty deep into Russia, Battle of the Atlantic in full swing, US still recovering from Pearl Harbor, and the Japanese would control Bornea, the East Indies, the Philippines, New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, and Burma, Rommel would be knocking on the door in the Mid East.  The big question will be the Allied starting units and positions, National Advantages, and Victory Conditions.  Does the UK player get more units in the Mid East?  Does the US player get another carrier, and a full complement of planes on the carrier, and what about the new battleships, cruisers, and destroyers commissioned in 1942?  Does the Russian player gets some tanks, as the T-34 started showing up in number in late 1941, and some aircraft?  What are the starting IPC for each country?

Maybe militarily from a territorial perspective, but from a logistics perspective, the Axis were too far spread out. The blitzkreig machine that was Germany had frozen to a halt in Russia (in some cases, quite literally.) Japan had too much territory, too few troops and resources to hold them all.

As far as I know, there are no logistics rules in the game, so the logistics problems of the Axis, of which I have a lot of data on, do not have any effect.  The military position will give them a boost in IPC, which may or may not be countered by an proportional Allied boost.  In 1942, the US should have more production capability that in 1941, and Russia should have an Industrial Center somewhere near the Urals, probably moving the Caucasus center further east.  The UK might have an Industrial Center in India or Australia, but I am not counting on that.  The military situation will be one with the Axis at full expansion and production, and the Allies needing to drive them back.

The questions I have are how much do the IPC levels change, and are there changes in the Victory Conditions?  Do the Allies get any additional IPC for driving the Axis back?  Are there any automatic techs in the scenario, and do the techs change at all?  Are the relative naval forces ratios based on history or game balance?  I suspect that they will be game balance driven.

Is Philippine Island only 2 IPC?

If not (i.e. its 3 as in Revised), than the starting income of 42 scenario is 32 for Japan as they have extra 4 for both NEI & BOR, 2 for Birma, 1 each HGK & NGU which makes 29 plus PHI.

Ahh,

You guys have been discussing my dilemma.   I have been working on AA50PlayersAid 1942 Setup.  I have studied that picture for several weeks. 
My observations;
item:Yes, the Philippines territory is 2, you can just see its edge under a unit.
item:IPC conditions, with Bonus IPC’s I think the values do change.
item:Great tech changes, simple, effective and qty 12.
back to the map;
item:Item:Krieghund reminded me, No 1942 game played at Gen Con, that was a 1941 game.  The picture then, would be staged for display.  Yet, there are too many 1942 Revised game positions noted on the board, for it to be accidental.  Plus additional random positions laid out, or pc’s laid on the board, for display perhaps.
item:I started with revised 2004 starting positions previously-known information.  How will this be modified by game’s rev? 
item:We know starting IPC’s have been altered slightly, the addition of new territories, and new Country Italy.  So, Given-there has to be a change to 1942 starting units-more units on starting, then in 2004 Revised…
item: We know unit costs are less expensive, so this allows and alteration of starting unit types (Especially Naval units.)  While maintaining, approximate Economic parity with Revised 2004 Setup.
Item:We know the new cruiser unit must be depoyed 1942, this will alter starting units.
Item:We know the Revised 2004 was slightly unbalanced for the Axis,
(please Hold the counter Historic counter reaction on this subject-timeover51, you are of course correct, but as pointed out in previous threads/posts, were working game balance-peace?)
I believe Larry would make that slight alteration, so add German Naval units-
I speculate, yes.
item:You guys have made some good observations.
The more I see that picture, the more I am inclined, to add, those extra Naval units, It makes sense.  Of course, less your observations, like brazil’s German Intrusion, Trans-Jordan"tank carrier-LOL"and what about China -(new stuff+old stuff emm…) and all those complaints about, Japans easy access too USSR.
qty 2 German Bombers maybe not( someones pushing IL’s heart rate? :-D)

Setup 1942

interpret by Dante

based by photo boargame.geek and Revised

http://dantegrassini.interfree.it/Axis/ann42west.JPG

http://dantegrassini.interfree.it/Axis/ann42est.JPG

Actually form a website a while ago i saw to bored to find it well lazy.
russia 1st trun= only 1st round
axis germany,japan + italy(optional)
allies u.s.a, gb and russia after 1st round also russia = ussr ok lol!

russia 1st trun= only 1st round
axis germany,japan + italy(optional)
allies u.s.a, gb and russia after 1st round also russia = ussr ok lol!

Thats something that looks similar to AARHE which uses the Revised map and takes place in 1942.

1st turn:
Soviets
Axis
Allies

All other turns:
Axis
Allies

that’s the proper way to state it.

@Imperious:

russia 1st trun= only 1st round
axis germany,japan + italy(optional)
allies u.s.a, gb and russia after 1st round also russia = ussr ok lol!

Thats something that looks similar to AARHE which uses the Revised map and takes place in 1942.

1st turn:
Soviets
Axis
Allies

All other turns:
Axis
Allies

that’s the proper way to state it.

Item:Hey IL,
thats how we play all our games.  It speeds up the game, and no one is left standing around waiting to play.  Its more fun to have everone in action at once.
We use several of those AARHE rules.  Victory City- INF placement.  I am attempting to have more of the AARHE rules adopted, but I have run into rules overload- with attempting to splice AA50 unit values, costs, TechTable etc… into our game.

Item:Dante thanks for the map for 1942.  Ahh, now I see, where your edit visuals have helped, me.  I can not remember If I told you I had given you editing credit on the AA50PlayersAid map for all your help.
  I will study and see where I can revise my 1942  AA50PlayersAid map with your information-and of course your credit.  I am about 90% done, having a hard time deciding, what those last few placements in Europe.  I feel this 1942 map will be the most speculative of the two(1941/1942.)Do you guys agree?

Except for the rules and the techs not changing, everything about the 1942 scenario is speculation at this point.

1942 set up is the last secret weapon of the game.

I would like to have a May 1940 scenario and July 43 scenario made with some starting technology in the latter. Ill get to work once things are known.