German AA50 -41 strategy

@Imperious:

I see the vital need to jump on Karelia and Egypt. If Germany goes to Egypt they need the bomber, but doing that leaves that UK BB and tranny to also take Finland and make a starter fleet.

Jumping right away to Egypt on G1 might not be essential. G can use the med transport to reinforce Libya, move 1 Inf and 1 Arm to Bulg/Rom and leave the UK with a decision to make: pull back from Egypt and reinforce India against J or bring units from India to prevent Egypt from falling to the Germans/Italians?

The russian front is quit straight forward for the first round: take as much as you can, and with a decent defence in each province the Russian having almost only infanteri cannot fight back the first round.
What to do with the two subs in the atlantic is somewhat troublesome. Those submarines are preaty toast in the UK round whatevery you do, so atleast try to attack something with them. If you take out a transport, UK has few transport available for attacking Europe.

Egypt is the painfull battle.

It is Italy which have interest in Egypt as they definitivly need the bonus IPC. Not germany.

Attacking egypt with 75% probability to win is risky, if you loose you loose a lot of stash, maybe including a bomber and a transport. Keeping a transport might prove very valueble.

The problem with Italy & Egypt is that Italy cannot afford to loose its transport. So if UK send ships into the medetarian, I would say that it might be to risky to send troops into egypt AND take out the UK ships at the same time, espesialy if UK still have a fighter in Egypt (which can kill a lone transport and maybe even a transport protected by a cruiser).

If left alone in the medeterian, Italy got quit the punch with three shorebombardment, killing 1-2 units before combat starts.
Without reinforcements in Egypt by UK, Italy can take egypt sending 3 infanteri, one artellery and one fighter. The problem is that UK gets to go first and decide what to do. Italy has to respond…

@Imperious:

Archangel:

2 inf from Finland
Baltic transport gets 1 tank 1 inf
3 fighters

against: 5 infantry, 1 art, 1 AA

15 vs. 12 ( 7 vs. 6)

fixed ;)

I think a very important discussion/consideration as far as whether or not G1 Egypt is worthwhile is how much long-term benefit there is to keep the German Med. trans and the bomber, as well as what drawbacks there are to waiting a turn to take it.  Without sacrificing the bomber in front of the tank for the purpose of taking egypt, there is a 60% chance of taking it on G1 with everything you can get there.  Good odds, certainly, but nothing to hang your hat on.  If you lose badly the fighter could remain to take out the German transport, or even if you kill everything in egypt but with only the bomber remaining, UK can send his India destroyer through the Suez.  Or he could crazily send his UK bomber down to sz 15 (depending on what other needs it can serve) and land in TJ, possibly shipping 1-2 units from India.  My point being that even if you take Egypt you can still lose your transport.  So, is the risk of losing your transport without even taking Egypt worth the payoff of either taking Egypt yourself on G1 or clearing it for Italy?  I dunno, but I’m tired and shouldn’t be thinking that hard right now.

@timerover51:

I do not recall saying anything about countering Germany’s first move.  I am fully aware that the Germans move first.  The added units go into the set up of the game.  They are there prior to any movement by Germany.  Lend-Lease purchases made in Turn 1 get delivered at the end of the Player’s turn 2.  Most of the UK naval units should be on the table, based on the relationship of forces between the Italian Navy and the Royal Navy.  Both the Royal Navy and US Navy are severely cut in all of the Axis and Allied games, except Pacific.  If they were not, Axis wins would be few and far between.

In the same way, in order to achieve that sacred objective of Play Balance, the ground forces that would have actually been present in the UK, and by now fully reequipped from the Dunkirk experience are heavily reduced, along with no allowance for the literally hundreds of shore batteries and coastal defenses erected by the British in case Sea Lion was actually tried.  Coastal Command was virtually the same size as Bomber Command, but is not reflected in the game.

As for the US Navy, it is reduced to a point where it is ludicrious, again in the name of Play Balance.

As for Italy, the following comments are made in one of your previous posts.  What do you plan on doing if the Italian player decides not to cooperate?

**2 subs in SZ-7 and fighter ( Finland ) attack Uk BB and transport (the Italian fleet will destroy the UK CA and DD off Gibraltar.

ON Italy’s turn they take Jordan with tranny landing 1 inf, 1 tank and 1 fighter against 2 infantry  ( Italian infantry in Libya move up to Egypt. ( now both sides can pass thru canal on second turn)**

And of course, if the Axis had really won WW2, I would not have been born. And many millions more would have died in the death camps and under the tender mercies of the Japanese Army. And how many individuals presently posting to the forum would have been part of those millions?

Its really starting to grate on me. This continual theme of yours really has nothing to do with a GAME. Its a FREAKIN GAME we are playing.

If you cant discuss a GAME without seeing the need to adjust it so that the Allies always win so you “feel better”, then you probably need to leave this forum.

I barely can make out the territories on the pics i saw, but still seems to me that an early double punch could take out the caucasus region.

Italy 1 is in good position early on to capture the caucasus complex via amphibious assault. That’s 2 shore bombardment and infantry/arti against 3 infantry. Italy brings it’s tanks and plane in the balkans at the german frontline with Ukraine. It build a second transport and some ground troops.

Russia 1 retake caucasus, yes, but won’t be able to pop troops out of there.

Germany 1 strike along the frontline taking and massing in ukraine close to caucasus.

Italy 2 strike at caucasus again with 4 amphibious units and the tanks in range trough ukraine held by germany. This also yields 3 shore bombard.

R2 russia can maybe or maybe not take back caucasus but G2 should put a definitive nail in that coffin. If i was Russia player, i’D rather see it flagged Italian than Germany.

I am assuming:
-  caucasus worth still 4 IPC for italy

• 3 infantry are defending caucasus round 1
• Italy has 1 BB, 2 cruisers and 1 transport rnd1
• That Germany can consider an IC in balkans to pop transports and will take care of Africa from G3. France IC could be an option too since it connect to med if i see correctly

EDIT: Hrmmm, upon further inspection, i saw there is 4 infantry defending caucasus. Well, Italy could refrain from taking it rnd 1 while doing it’s work in Egypt and still set up with germans to take caucasus on rnd 2.

@axis_roll:

I guess I just don’t have the time for sheer speculation as A&A strategy discussions already are pretty nebulous even WHEN all the rules are known and games have been played to test these strategies.   :|

I seems you do at least have the time to post that you don’t have the time to discuss this topic further  8-) :mrgreen:

I’m really sorry Axis_roll, I just couldn’t help myself!  :-D :wink:

G1 strategy ’41 scenario Axis & Allies Anniversary edition

Objective: get as many infantry as possible into Russia. Harass UK without risking too heavy losses, especially air units.

Builds: 8 inf, 1 sub.

Combat moves:
Baltic states: 1 inf from Norway, 1 inf from Northwestern Europe, 2 inf, 1 art and 2 tanks from Poland, 1 cruiser bombarding.
East Poland: 2 inf from Poland, 2 tanks from Czechoslovakia/Hungary, 2 tanks from Roumania/Bulgaria.
Ukraine: 3 inf, 1 art from Roumania/Bulgaria, 1 ftr from Poland, 1 ftr from Germany.
Egypt: 1 inf, 1 art, 1 tank from Libya, 1 inf from Morocco/algeria, 1 tank from France.
North Sea: 1 sub from Baltic Sea, 1 ftr from Norway.
Azores sz: 1 sub from Bay of Biscay, 1 ftr from Northwest Europe, 1 bmb from Germany (abort attack when sub is destroyed!).
East Canada sz: 1 sub from Bay of Biscay.

Probable results: 1-2 subs survive,  0-1 of 3 UK destroyers. In Egypt: either taken or Uk survives with ftr or ftr and tank.

Non-combat moves: 2 inf, 1 AA from Germany to France, 1 inf, 1 art from Germany to Poland (if you hit that transport in Labrador you can send one more inf to Poland). Fighters: 2 land in France, 1 in Poland, 1 in Roumania/Bulgaria. Bmb: Germany.

Placement: 8 inf in Germany, 1 sub in Baltic Sea.

Follow-up: Italy should attack vs. Egypt and put some inf in France, build an extra transport so that it can amphibious assault both in Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Turn 2 Germany buys an AA, more inf and art and another sub. From turn 3 onwards, add tanks, ftr and bmb to your inf builds of at least 6 / turn. Use your subs as casualties in conjunction with air attacks in the Atlantic, stop building them when the Royal Navy gets too powerful. In Russia, take Karelia turn 2, trade territories until your inf arrive from Germany and then put pressure vs. both Archangelsk and Caucasus. The latter should be attacked by the italians as well. If using techs, start putting 5 IPCs/turn from turn 2 on and aim for the Land/Production chart, increase this to 10 IPCs/turn if the Allies build a lot of bombers or get heavy bombers tech and stop when you get Radar or IC repair.

We haven’t really talked about spending some of your initial buys on tech.

It was my understanding that tech dice do not go away until you successfully research something, so what about spending 5IPCs on the first turn so you always have a tech roll?

I thought nations play order was same with Italy going first now?

What’s the new order?

Germany, Russia, Japan, UK, Italy, US in '41.  '42 is the same with Japan and Germany flip-flopped.

against a battleship? how is this gonna win/ Suicide mission. Battleships do fire back against subs? or is their some trick?

Hey, I mean the DD and TRS off Canada of course, I change my post for clarity!

The idea not to attack that BB is trying to kill off: 1 CA, 3 DD, 1 TRS (43 IPCs) instead of 1 BB, 1 DD, 1 TRS (35 IPCs). Then UK won’t be able to attack your subs with the RAF and you will get a turn or two to attack with your subs.

Egypt is simple: it’s going to fall on Italy’s turn anyway and in the long run a German campaign in Africa is too much waste of resources, it should be an italian theater of war. I prefer using that BMB vs. the Royal Navy!

@Lynxes:

Egypt is simple: it’s going to fall on Italy’s turn anyway and in the long run a German campaign in Africa is too much waste of resources, it should be an italian theater of war. I prefer using that BMB vs. the Royal Navy!

Egypt will probably survive with anywhere from 1 fighter to 1 fighter, 1 tank, 1 art.  Regardless it means your German trans will be dead and Germany probably won’t be able to transport any unit to Africa for the rest of the game.  If he lives with just the tank+fighter, and ships 1inf, 1 art from India + 2 inf from TJ, you won’t take Egypt with Italy.  He could also move his bomber down, forcing you to keep your navy bottled in sz 14 on I1 to protect a transport if you build one (which I prob would).  And on UK2 he can transport the 2 inf from SAF to Egypt.  Not to mention that depending on how you move he could practically force you out of Africa with just UK troops that started in the area.  Even if he doesn’t, an Allied landing in Morocco will probably be happening in the first few turns, and if you haven’t taken Egypt solidly by then you can forget about Africa.

It might seem like he’s leaving Japan alone, but if Japan goes hard @China and the Pacific, UK can probably build an India complex that won’t be threatened until like J3.  And I’d guess the US will be building some type of Pacific navy.

/03321

Well, let’s see what will be the case on Italy1 when they make the jump versus Egypt. We assume my proposed attack and the survival of 1 ftr and 1 tank. Two scenarios:

1. India reinforcement, 2 inf

Italy: 3 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr, bombard: 1 BB, 2 CA= 10 shore bombard, 16 attack.
UK: 4 inf, 1 tank, 1 ftr= 17

Probable end result: Italy takes Egypt with 1 arm, 1 ftr.

2. No india reinforcement:

Italy: 3 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr, bombard: 1 BB, 2 CA= 10 shore bombard, 16 attack.
UK: 2 inf, 1 tank, 1 ftr= 13

Probable end result: Italy takes Egypt with 2 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr.

I doubt if UK actually can take 2 inf from India and build an IC, since then it won’t be defended. And I wouldn’t pour troops into India to be killed and lose India in the process. UK will fight Africa either from a South African IC or from landings in North or West Africa.

So nr 2) is the probable scenario, and here Italy can afford to leave the BB outside of Italy and build a TRS safely and not fear attacks by that BMB, and still win the fight.

I can’t see why Germany needs to get troops into Africa. This is an italian theater of war!