Case Anton
-
When I was making my diplomacy sheet, I noticed that Vichy is considered an “Axis power” and can’t be attacked by Germany or Italy.
This seems so wrong. Yes, the allies attacked Vichy (and that was mostly the UK, but that is a different argument) but Germany and Italy were the ones to end the Vichy regime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Anton
This doesn’t seems to help gameplay, give more options, or even simply anything. It almost seems a handicap to Germany, as they now cannot reinforce Southern France. Does anyone have an idea why this was changed from V2?
-
Hello,
The german player have the choice to create Vichy or not when France surrender. So it isn’t a “handicap” for him like you say, because he can choose.
For me, Vichy France is not an handicap :
-All Vichy’s income is collected by germany (rule 14.4.2, page 60).
-Vichy gets a free recruitment roll of “2” each turn (as long as Vichy posses Corsica and Southern France, its capital) until he is aligned with germany (when the allies or commintern declare war on Vichy, if they are also at war with germany, something that should happen every games).
Remember that free france and vichy france are in a “civil war” = free france can’t declare war on Vichy because they are alredy in conflict. So, Free France can’t align Vichy with Germany.-Like I said in the previous paragraph, vichy could become aligned (= annex) by Germany.
-Also, the german player can decide to lend lease Vichy France (rule 14.4.3, page 61), when he control it.
So I think that he can build a factory and place unit for vichy ? Need to be confirmed.I Think that the Anton Case is represented with the annexation of Vichy by Germany, when he is aligned.
-
I’d have to agree with @Didier_de_Dax in basically every way. From point out that Germany gets the IPP, to Vichy’s recruitment rolls, and Germany’s ability to Lend Lease.
I think the most important point he makes that the potential alignment of Vichy France is essentially Case Anton. Case Anton wasn’t really planned for unless the Allies attacked Vichy French territory and/or Vichy collapse seemed imminent from other events. So allowing Germany to preemptively attack Vichy is actually what would seem wrong to me.
Similarly to your point on reinforcing Southern France, it would also seem unfair to allow the Germans to just lay in wait for whenever an allied attack might come. But if you’re worried about it, have a reserve force on hand in Paris? And again, don’t forget you can Lend Lease to them.
But the point was also made that Germany does not have to create Vichy in the first place! So if you want to attack them, don’t create in the first place.
-Vichy gets a free recruitment roll of “2” each turn (as long as Vichy posses Corsica and Southern France, its capital) until he is aligned with germany (when the allies or commintern declare war on Vichy, if they are also at war with germany, something that should happen every games).
I maybe disagree with the bolded text from @Didier_de_Dax though, but please debate me if you disagree! Why do you think the Allies and/or Comintern should attack Vichy every game? In my mind, the Allies might be better off allowing the French internal conflict to play out for as long as possible. I’d personally rather not allow Germany the ability to posses/use the Vichy units by forcing alignment by Allied attack. Sure, if Vichy colonies have been liberated and all that’s really left are Vichy home country then maybe, but to me the internal conflict benefits the Allies more!
-
@chris_henry
Sorry Chris Henry it’s a mistake I made in my text.
English is not my native language :flag-fr:“something that should happen every games” I was speaking of the fact that allies or commintern are always (maybe some little exceptions exist) at war with Germany.
So, If the allies or Commintern declares war on Vichy, the french german puppet (Vichy) switch from controlled to aligned with Germany (because the commintern and/or allies are always at war with Germany).
-
@didier_de_dax No need to apologize here! But I certainly see what you meant to say now!
-
@chris_henry thanks ;)
And do you know if germany is allowed to build a factory in Southern France (with ipc they lend lease to them), in order to build forces there ?
(when Vichy is only controlled by Germany). -
@didier_de_dax I believe the answer to this is no. The Lend-Lease rules at 7.9 state that “Major Powers may send lend-lease to other Major and Minor Powers. This can be either military units or IPPs”. To me that means you can’t lend lease a factory, or any type of base. I’ve also usually understood this to mean that Vichy couldn’t just take IPP in Lend-Lease either. Unless I’m misremembering, controlled minors do not collect income, and so sending IPP via Lend-Lease seems like something that can’t be done. Point being, Vichy couldn’t collect IPP via Lend-Lease and just build their own factory.
-
@chris_henry I think that you’re right.
-
@didier_de_dax Yeah. I could be wrong, but I think the wording in the rules could be changed. In V2, it made sense to include the line about sending lend-lease IPP’s to controlled minors. But the fact that in V3 controlled minors only do a recruitment roll and don’t collect income, means there’s literally no point in sending IPP to a controlled minor.
-
Germany can send Lend-Lease to Vichy (Rule 14.4.3), but you cannot lend lease facilities, only IPP or Militaty units as was pointed out (Rule 7.9).
Furthermore, Vichy has no separate income since Germany receives income from all Vichy land zones (Rule 14.4.2 and Vichy QRS) and no build table, so its pointless to send IPPs.
Therefore, the only way that Vichy can get new units is through its Recruitement rolls or Lend Lease from Germany (and no other Axis power).
Suggested Topics
