If you save all or some Penalty IPC for later use, you can use these IPC on same terms as all other IPC - which means that you can also purchase naval units.
Depending on when the Nation is violated (Japanese-Soviet pact) the number of Penalty IPC is reduced in each round - so if the violation occurs later than 3 rounds after the pact is effective, you would not be able to purchase naval units anyway, since the most cheap naval unit costs 6 IPC.
If you are planning to violate the pact within a few rounds anyway - you should attack or declare War during Early 1940 or Late 1940 to avoid the pact from being effective.
That would save you some IPC - but it would also open another Front.
The Penalty IPC rule is intended as an instant support to the violated Nation, so the violated Nation can purchase units to counter attack the enemy or block further advance for at least one round, etc.
@the-captain yes thank you. If an AG is attacking, 1 of it’s 2 Armies/Corps must be active.
@barnee
That is correct:+1: As long as the Army Group is intact you also get 2 extra dice rolls at “4” during the attack - and 2 dice rolls at “5” during defense.
As you’ll see in the next two Game Reports that I’m going to post today, those Army Group dice rolls are crucial:muscle:
@the-captain heh heh Right Arm :muscle:
I think you’re correct though in saying one would want to deactivate the AG in my example and let the Panzers roll.
One would get 6 rolls at “3” for the Waffen Active and 2 rolls “at 4” for the AG, but still, 10 at “3” for the Panzer Army seems the way to go.
Actually 4 rolls at 3 and 2 at 2 for the Waffen Oberst. So, even more reason to deactivate the AG and go Panzer mode :)
@barnee
That is an option, yes.
Concerning the Army Group formation, it is advisable to have at least 1 Panzer Army / Tank Army in each Army Group - for that exact reason.
@the-captain yea those Panzers are heavy hitters. I prioritize almost always. For G and russia anyway. Even USA can get a Desert G in there. So hard to get them mainland though.
@the-captain
so when attacking a wolfpack with no DDs or Escorts with submarines and the subs get a surprise strike hit, that Uboat is immediately killed but the remaining Uboats would still fire at 3 for the 1st rd ?
Example
3 Uboats are attacked by a DD, 2 SS, 2 Escorts.
1 of the Subs hits. 1 Uboat is immediately removed and the 2 remaining Uboats fire at 3.
Then the DD and 2 Escorts fire.
That sound right ? That how you guys play it ?
Edit
I guess technically the DD and Escorts would fire then the Uboats but triple does it the above. Still get the same result as the Uboat casualties get to fire back
According to the OOB G40 rules, both attacking and defending Submarine units fire simultaneously (attacker rolls first for game play reasons).
Answer to your first question:
If a German U-Boat Wolfpack is attacked by enemy naval units - and the attacker has no Destroyer or Escort units present - the U-Boats can escape (dive).
If the defending U-Boats choose to stay on the surface and defend, all U-Boats - including anyone that is taken as casualty - can defend. This is OOB rules.
If the German player has a Wolfpack, these U-Boats would defend at “3” during the first round of Combat.
After the first round of Combat, the attack continues according to OOB rules.
Does this answer your question ?
@the-captain yea I didn’t phrase it very clearly. The 3 Uboats are being Attacked by a DD, 2 Escorts and 2 SS so they can’t dive.
So Subs shoot simultaneous ? That would mean All Uboats would Fire regardless of a hit by a Sub ? I thought DD prevented First Strike thats why the Uboats wouldn’t get one but the two attacking subs would ?
A defending Submarine unit that is hit by an attacking Submarine unit must still defend - even if there is no defending Destroyer unit present.
If I remember correctly, this rule has been the same in all Axis & Allies versions since Axis & Allies Classic.
@the-captain right on just wanted to make sure we’re playing the same way you guys do.
So all members of the Wolfpack return fire 1st rd of combat regardless of any sub hits with a DD present. That was how we were playing it with dice bot, but I got curious last night when I did it with Edit mode on, so I looked it up.
This was what I wasn’t sure of
However,
if the opposing side has a destroyer in the battle, the attacking
or defending submarines can’t submerge or make a Surprise Strike. Combat proceeds normally with your submarines firing
along with your other units in step 3 or 4.
and then
Each attacking submarine conducting a Surprise Strike rolls one
die. Attacking submarines that roll a “2” or less score a hit. After
the attacking player has rolled for all attacking submarines, the
defender chooses 1 sea unit (submarines can’t hit air units) for
each hit scored and moves it behind the casualty strip.
*Then each defending submarine conducting a Surprise Strike
rolls one die. Defending submarines that roll a “1” score a
hit. After the defending player has rolled for all defending
submarines, the attacker chooses 1 sea unit for each hit scored
and removes it from play. *
Once all attacking and defending submarines that conducted a
Surprise Strike have fired, the casualties they have generated
are removed from the game and this step (step 2) is over for
this round of combat.
That was from here https://www.hasbro.com/common/documents/60D52426B94D40B98A9E78EE4DD8BF94/6B7BC7B257E049558181A7D71B822DCF.pdf
So it made it sound like, if you didn’t get a Surprise Strike, then you wouldn’t be shooting at the same time.
Anyway, just wanted to double check :)
@the-captain I did some searching and this is what I was referring to
Panther MODERATOR OFFICIAL Q&A 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 TRIPLEA Aug 18, 2020, 2:45 AM
@Cernel said in Submarines v. anything that isn’t a destroyer:
Here it is an example of the second case:
You have 1 submarine and 1 destroyer attacking 1 submarine alone. The attacking submarine hits.
Excellent example, indeed!
In Revised, the defending submarine fires back.
Correct. As by the rules "Both attacking and defending submarines fire in this [Opening Fire] step. If submarines are present on both sides, they are considered to fire simultaneously. "
The attacking destroyer does not affect the defending sub’s Sneak Attack ability.
In Global, the defending submarine doesn’t fire back.
Correct as the attacking destroyer cancels the defending submarine’s Surprise Strike ability.
True - but the end result concerning casualties is the same - since the defending subs still return fire even when they are hit.
@the-captain Cernel and Panther are saying they don’t return fire when hit.
Here it is an example of the second case:
You have 1 submarine and 1 destroyer attacking 1 submarine alone. The attacking submarine hits.
*In Global, the defending submarine doesn’t fire back.
Correct as the attacking destroyer cancels the defending submarine’s Surprise Strike ability.*
Here’s where they discuss it https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/35634/submarines-v-anything-that-isn-t-a-destroyer/6?_=1687299945279
I was thinking one could just amend the Wolfpacks ability to include disabling the DD’s ability to prevent a Surprise Strike. The DD would still prevent submerging.
Hm - okay - we’ll most likely have to keep the rules as they are according to the OOB G40 rulebook.
I’ll be back - as soon as I have discussed with our Veteran Group.
Thanks:+1:
@the-captain on creation of a Convoy/Escort, I can do that at anytime as long as the conditions are met ?
When an Escort is in the same SZ as a friendly
Transport the owner of the Escort can choose to
create a Convoy.
For example. I have a Escort with no Trprts present. On CM, 2 Trprts move into the SZ with the Escort. Can I then form a Convoy at the end of CM, so any potential scramble would allow the Escort to Defend at 3 ?
Yes - Transport units and Escort units can form a Convoy during Combat Movement - as you describe above.
This game mechanism is the same as when a Tactical Bomber unit can support a Tank unit - even if they don’t come from the same space.
@the-captain can’t remember if I’ve asked this already and didn’t see anything in the rules, can AA Guns move in combat move ? They attack at 0 but provide a hit point. Also could land them in amphib attacks.
@barnee
All rules concerning AAA are according to the OOB rulebook.
The only exception is when Air-To-Air-Combat Over Target Area occurs during Strategic Bombing.
@the-captain hmm … well they don’t have a defense value or can be used as a hitpoint in oob. I’m gonna assume they can’t move in CM
I must be screwing up. I thought they Defend at 1 ?
Edit
Ok, they do D1 but are same otherwise as oob I think ? :)
Just reread oob rules. So they do count as hit point. Can’t move in CM unless on transport but can’t unload in CM.
So, can’t move in CM. Correct ?
