AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat

I find the idea of airplanes engaging airplanes wonderful. Very good idea. But a plane attacking another plane should have the edge. You think you can defend on a 4 with a Me-109 on your tail?? I think the one on your tail attacks on a 4 and you defend on a 3…

++++in this sytem planes fight at different modified aerial combat values… attacking planes are at 1-2  defending at 1-3… bombers on either side at 1.
that way the planes dont get chewed up, plus its impossible to destroy that many planes in a short time. The defense gets the advantage because it has a shorter range to engage planes… ala the battle of britian… the defense was more able.

Now for ground units being unable to hit airplanes? What is that? Even in Battlefield 1942 you can attack a fighter with a jeep-mounted .50!!! Defending ground units should be given a chance to defend themselves against attacking A/U on a roll of 1.

+++++ its possible for a .50 to hit a plane but thats in movies and … games… in the war this was not a common thing especially when a fighter = 1,000 planes… their is not realitic way any combination of land forces in the entire war had even destroyed more than 300 planes in this manner… all AA flak batteries combined were responsible for no more than 10% of all combined plane loses in the war… thats why air speriority is most important… during the the bulge campaign i ask you why didnt the German panzer korps just “shoot down” all those allied planes in the air in late december? … Antwort: because they didnt have any air units! and land forces cant do anything againt the air. Look at Iraq 1991 and the battle of the retreating forces back to bagdad… they even had surface to air weapons ( rpg) but no capabilities to do anything against planes… even with modern weapons… it was even worse in WW2.

I mean ONE DIE for the whole bunch per cycle of combat. Even if you have 5 INF and 5 tanks, the whole bunch gets to roll 1 D6 per attacking ennemy A/U per cyle of combat. That would represent the small arms fire you encounter when strafing and the small caliber AA guns escorting ground units.

++++++++++++ok what exactly is the rule? how many dice, what are the results? what are the effects? … the idea is not clear.

Infantry should be able to destroy tanks in defense…don’t you think?

+++++they can but only if their are no defending infantry left and only tanks left… In war tanks fight tanks and have great tank battles… this is no place for infantry to hang around… armor cuts thru infantry like a knife and butter. The only way to stop this is with …tanks so these hits go againt each other… So in a way infantry is still a sponge because it protects enemy infantry from killing your tanks… but in a real way we have solved that problem of “infantry as guinea pigs”

I don’t understant the 1-2 or 1-3. Isn’t it 2 or less and 3 or less?

And for the tanks battles, Thats a great idea too. It’s more strategic like that.

IN air combat all attacking fighters fight at 2 or less, all defending fighters are at 3 or less… all other planes are at 1 ( bombers)

right one is the lowest value that can be assigned so one it is.

So Infantry kills infantry, until there is no more ennemy infantry. Tanks kill tanks, air units kill air units first and then pound ground units without possibility of being fired at. If there are no defending fighters, tanks and planes attack at 4 on a one to one basis.

In land combat their is a possiblity for any units to be hit… if the infantry hit something the defender can destroy a tank instead of another infantry… only when a tanks hit the hit allocation must go against another tank artillery unit… In this way your tank armies are very important… you must have an advantage in tanks just like in real combat or you get the back door.

If their are no air units left… then air units pound the ground units AS LONG AS YOU HAVE ENGAGED LAND FORCES AND BOTH SIDES DO NOT RETREAT… then air units fight at normal values ( attack at 3). so we change the attack value of planes when they fight other air units and not when engaged in air combat.

NO artillery should keep its bonus, but its hit allocations are against infantry… however, when your tanks score hits the defender CAN allocate artillery as loses instead of tanks. this is the only case where artillery are involved like this.

so its

INF hits on any land units
ARM hits on ARM or ART units first
ART hits on INF first (or is that any land units?

This is better:
All attacking infantry hits are the choice of defender
All attacking armor hits are allocated to defending armor or artillery before the selection can be made to any other land unit.

now, back to air units combating without ground control

any updates Imperious Leader?

A fixed number of turns would be unrealistic, even when defending thus “inactive”.

I sugguest some sorta dice rolling, air units individually forced to retreat, related to number of enemy land units, different values for attacking or defending.
It shall be quite a full solution.
Yes lone attacking air units is covered too. Air power is not unlimited. You don’t have one single air division repelling a sizable army.

air only attack:
Defender rolls a dice for each defending land unit excluding AA in step 5, for every roll of 1 roll another dice. For every roll of 2 or less attacker retreats an air unit.

++++ air only attack does not involve land units. if you move your air units into a space where only defending air units are they combat according to air combat values ( see other material). If you attack a territory with land units and air units they each combat seperatly. If AA guns are present and they roll first before aerial combat begins ( hitting on two rolls of one, and forced retreats on two rolls of 2–- all other results are ignored. They may also recieve more than one roll depending on the territory under attack. I will reword my previous post on this.

On average 18 units/cycles to retreat one air unit. Assuming defender holds at all costs. Rough maths, dead land units not removed, more would be killed in practice.

1 FTR attacks 18 INF…0.5 INF would be killed
1 FTR attacks 9 INF…0.5 + 0.5 INF = 1 INF would be killed
1 FTR attacks 3 INF…0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 1.5 INF would be killed

4 FTR attacks 18 INF…2 + 1.5 + 1 + 0.5 = 4.5 INF would be killed
4 FTR attacks 9 INF…2 + 2 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1 + 1 etc = ALL INF would be killed

air only defend:
Attacker rolls a dice for each attacking land unit excluding AA in step 4. For every roll of 1 attacker retreats an air unit.

On average 6 rolls to retreat one air unit. Assuming attacker pushes at all costs. Rough maths, dead land units not removed, more would be killed in practice.

6 INF attacks 1 FTR…0.66 INF would be killed
3 INF attacks 1 FTR…0.66 + 0.66 INF would be killed

6 INF attacks 2 FTR…1.33 + 0.66 = 2 INF would be killed
6 INF attacks 3 FTR…all INF would be killed
12 INF attacks 3 FTR…3 INF killed

In that case its a voided attack… the planes cannot attack land units preemtively w/o supporting land units. WE can also just allow one free attack but it looks better the first way. Its just too decisive to allow it will cripple game balance. thats one of the problems we playtested and air power really killed land units to the point where the infantry commander was pissed.

the planes cannot attack land units preemtively w/o supporting land units.

Oh why? Does it make a difference since all land units can’t hit the air units anyway?
Or are you saying you can’t have an attacking force of purely air units?

the second works better… you need land forces in order to have attacking planes that get preemtive attacks. What do you think?

Quote
WE can also just allow one free attack but it looks better the first way.

Oh, you ARE saying you can’t have an attacking force of purely air units?
My post is about both attacker and defender having only air units.

++++if purely air attack then both sides use the aerial combat values… thats it. it can continue as long as both sides want.

purely air attack

Neither side has ability to contol land hence can fight forever. My proposal is that land units (not air units) force air units to retreat.

++++ how do land units force air to retreat?

P.S. Did German fighters and bombers actually landed on grass during Battle of Britain?

+++++ yes they did they landed in the desert as well as long as the runway was flat and firm. Of course this was ad hoc airfield. but in war everything in improvisation.

Shore Bombardment and Infantry Support
During Ground Combat, for amphibious assaults, all surface warships with a primary combat value of two or higher have one preemptive “shore bombardment” attack. In order to support landings you must land four Land units to receive one shore bombardment shot. Defenders losses do not fire back. In addition, each warship (whether supporting or not) improves one attacking infantry unit with an attack die roll modifier of +1 on the first round only. So if you only land 3 Infantry, you still get each of them with a +1 modifier provided you have at least three warships with an attack value of two. Warships that participate in Naval Combat may not shore bombard or provide infantry support for amphibious assaults.

Defending Artillery fire in Amphibious Assault
Following shore bombardment attacks, any defending artillery units present then receive one round of preemptive fire upon invading enemy units. Hits are taken first (chosen by the attacker) and removed from play. Land combat then follows in the normal manner starting with section #2.

First Round land combat restrictions
The attacker’s first land combat phase is restricted to Infantry only (including Airborne).

So to summarize invasions:
4)  Shore bombardment (preemptive).
5)  Defender artillery fire support (preemptive).
6)  Tactical Air Command missions against defending air units/ land units (preemptive if only land units are defending).
7)  Attacking Infantry can attack on round one; all other land units can attack on round two or latter.
Cool  Defender rolls for all land units (except Artillery which fired).
9)  Continue combat rounds until one side is destroyed or retreats from battle.