Axis Victories (what's the "magic" trick?)

@Cornwallis:

Zhukov,

Yes, in recent games the Germans are taking more Russian territory and thus increasing their income and denying the Russians their income.
I guess that when you fail to take Moscow you go for a long game (14-15 rounds).
Do you attack USSR with Japan? I usually do. The plus side is the russian are getting less, but all too often, it sucks valuable Japanese ground forces needed in China in the early game.

If you are devoting alot of resources to that (or if you are activating the Mongolia troops early on) that could be another reason Axis are having trouble.  Japan’s main focus should be islands/China/India–sure take Siberian territories if they are free, but otherwise it’s a distraction.

I agree with Zhukov – Japan is trying to triple its income over the first four turns, so you have to ask yourself what kind of return on investment you can expect from different attacks. If Russia abandons Siberia entirely, or only leaves 2 infantry there, then you can steamroll the infantry with forces in Manchuria plus one or two planes that weren’t really needed elsewhere, and pick up an extra 6 to 8 IPCs of income every turn – that’s a good return on investment. You’re committing about 25 IPCs of low-value troops and losing about 3 IPCs worth of troops to boost your income by 7 IPCs per turn. It pays for itself, quickly.

Same thing with attacking Hong Kong, Malaya, and Borneo – Hong Kong and Borneo are practically undefended, and Malaya only has four infantry defending it. So you bring down a few loaded transports to a central region of the board, in a sea zone where your capital ships can easily guard them. You commit about 50 IPCs’ worth of material, expect to lose about 6 IPCs worth of troops, and you boost your income by 10 IPCs per turn, plus you knock out UK Pacific and ANZACs’ national objectives. Very good return on investment.

But if you attack a well-defended Siberia, now you’re looking at committing 70 IPCs’ worth of high-value troops – you need enough infantry, tanks, and aircraft to kill 12 Soviet infantry plus 2 Soviet AAs. You won’t be able to gather all of that force all at once no matter what you do, so your progress will be slower, so your income only goes up by an average of 3 IPCs per turn in the crucial early turns. You can expect somewhat higher casualties, since you’re fighting a real defensive force. So now you’re committing 70 IPCs and losing 15 IPCs to gain 3 IPCs per turn. Very bad return on investment. Even if you technically make a profit of 1 or 2 IPCs over the course of the game, that’s not nearly enough to justify the attack. You need opportunities for big, fast, reliable profits, not opportunities for small, slow, unreliable profits.

Some people try to include the value of the Soviet defenders as part of this calculation, saying, oh, well, I killed off 50 IPCs’ worth of Russian infantry and AAAs, so it’s still a good trade. Wrong. Those defenders can’t be in Siberia and Moscow at the same time. If they stay to guard Siberia, you’ve removed them from Moscow just as effectively as if you killed them. If they retreat toward Moscow, then you invade Siberia, after the defenders are gone…because then you get a nice fat return on investment, i.e., you can sweep up the entire Soviet Far East with just two or three units. There’s never any reason to assault a stack of 14 Russian defenders in a Siberian territory. You will always have a juicier target somewhere else – or, if you don’t, that means someone has already won the game.

If you go hard into siberia, well, you are probably dowing j3 or j2. I don’t like it unless Russia stacks up in amur and tempts me.

If you are struggling to win as the axis, I suggest just playing for income, in which case spamming mech from germany, arty from ukraine and novgorod, and pushing to volgograd / caucasus etc, you will make bank.

But yes you will need to dow early with Japan to get Japan’s income high.

Think of it this way, Europe is hard to punch for the allies. USA is super far away, UK has to figure out how to produce units to hold the middle east / support Russia. So UK isn’t going to build boats and d-day very heavily like in other AA boards.
~

The axis can make allies income fast, which is the flaw of the global board.

@Cornwallis:

Zhukov,

With Axis we don’t have a fixed strategy. We have tried J1 (with some rare axis victories).
A red line for Germany are Art/Inf and 1 DD on G1.
Then G2 attack Russia and buy Armour (recently we have changed this to 2 bombers, mech and Art).
Japan does a J1 with a 2 Tpt and 1 factory buy. If they wait until J2 to attack they sometimes buy 3 Tpt and go full China the first rounds.

Usually Germany stealmates around moscow around G7 with US and GB Eur slowly advancing on the West.
My question is: do you play to take moscow (so a medium game) or do you play on the income and play in the long term (14-15 turns)?

Ok, a few points. Dump the G1 DD buy. You can’t combine it with 6art. You also don’t need a surface warship to block the USSR lend lease NO. If you are strafing SZ111, you’ll want a sub buy which still allows the hit soak in SZ112. Even if you are intending to run south to the Mid east, you still want the maximum threat to Moscow.

What does Japan do with its 3 starting TTs? They should all be positioned to strike the DEI and/or Malaya. New transports can hit the Philippines. Overland troops can hit Kwangtung, you shouldn’t need to use amphibious forces for that. Later on, Japan can use its navy to block SZ42 (Java) to protect 3 of the money islands from USN based at SZ54. Philippines isn’t that much of a weak point - with a few ground units and planes on it, it shouldn’t fall very easily. The real weak point is the Carolines. From there, they can hit almost everything.

I agree with Zhukov44 about Siberia being a distraction, unless of course something non standard happens. Perhaps if they stack Amur round 1, although even then you may only be playing for Europe victory from that point.

Make sure you can counter attack a US landing on Normandy or Southern France, best done with a few artillery in France combined with mechs in W Germany (which double as defenders of W Germany). Don’t forget that the UK can reinforce with both air and land. Of course, there may be times that your air is more needed for a Moscow take down and can’t be present here so you need to deal with this later.

Another of my non standard plays when playing OOB is to leave Normandy French so USA can’t take it. I also attack Southern France not just for the port on the Med (which I don’t find super useful) but also to ensure that Germany have 70 IPCs in case they go Sea Lion.

Don’t forget strategic bombing on Calcutta and Moscow. It’s a great value proposition if you don’t house rule fighters attacking and defending on a 2 (instead of 1) in SBR air battles, and sometimes even then. A skilled Allied player will make convoy disruption on Calcutta difficult but if the opportunity presents then put a couple of subs in SZ39.

Anyway, with my post on the previous page, I’ve given you a fair few of what things should be done as axis to win nearly every time.

Thank you for the feedback info on your Axis play so far.

I would recommend a Stratbombing campagne on Moscow when you have taken E. Poland.
A G1 buy of two StratB’s followed by a G2 10x Arm plus 1x Ftr and G3 Mech builds.
I2 dow taking E.Pol and Germany follows with dow on G3.
From there you bomb Moscow each round to submission.
Start off with this strategy and refine it.
Refresh your Bmbr losses or even add one each round from G4 onward.
Take Novo soon and Ukraine and build Artys and Arms there or what you just need.
Usually Mechs from Novo and Artys/Arms from Ukraine.
If Germany controlls W. Ukraine build a mIC there too.

But you don’t need strat bombers g1 to hit Moscow from g4.

@simon33:

But you don’t need strat bombers g1 to hit Moscow from g4.

What I like about strat bombers early is that they can also keep London modest and by threatening bombing London.
And don’t underestimate the power of a large air force taking out a stack of Russian without any ground support. Just killing it, expecting some losses and remove a big Russian threat before it can retreat to Moscow.

@Cornwallis:

The DD is used to kill the russian sub who convoys the entire game + serves to protect any transport ships you might built for a sea lion.
The Japenese 3 TT are used to take the money islands. Off course we don’t attack the russian stack in siberia, that would be stupid. All the things you mention, we do as well. The only thing we don’t always exploit is the strategic bombing of Moscow and India. Do you think this might be a decisive step?

Strategic Bombers not only increase your ability to project power across the board thus forcing the allies to play safer, but they actively limit the number of pieces India and Moscow can put on the board. Strategic Bombers are how you win a battle of attrition instead of getting stuck in a stalemate.

@Cornwallis:

The DD is used to kill the russian sub who convoys the entire game + serves to protect any transport ships you might built for a sea lion.
The Japenese 3 TT are used to take the money islands. Off course we don’t attack the russian stack in siberia, that would be stupid. All the things you mention, we do as well. The only thing we don’t always exploit is the strategic bombing of Moscow and India. Do you think this might be a decisive step?

Yeah, I understand what the DD is for. Still, you can buy it G2 and it does the same job. Germany doesn’t have many artillery in its starting push so having another one is pretty helpful.

Strat bombing is really useful for stopping Moscow and Calcutta from building too many units. If you don’t do that, the two most vulnerable capitals won’t fall as easily. So yes, I think it is plausible that such an omission could be decisive.

Well, to be fair, you don’t technically need a destroyer at all, for Germany, if you don’t have transports to protect, or still have your battleship to take a potshot if you do have a ship or two to shield from a Russian sub in the black sea.

A sub can sit in SZ 125 to block Russia’s N.O.

@simon33:

One more thing. Don’t buy slow moving troops g2 unless they are for amphibious use. They can’t reach Bryansk g5 which makes then not very useful. Buy A bunch of mech and armour.  It’s much more useful. The mechs can pair with art bought in the forward factories and also bought g1.

I’m reconsidering this one BTW. If a good allies player will stop the G6 take down of Moscow, why not plan for that? A bunch of art mobilised in Berlin G2 helps a G7 Moscow take down and mechs bought in W Germany G2 can still reach Belarus G4.

A conservative Japan and Aggressive G1 DoW doesn’t work too well, America ends up sending a death ball fleet to assist in Europe.

There are situations when the Soviet/UK  player rolls snake-eyes …  2 of 3 AAA shots…  Once that happens to the Axis player in a couple of games… you realize the Strat Bombing campaign is riskier than you realize.

@MeinHerr:

There are situations when the Soviet/UK  player rolls snake-eyes …  2 of 3 AAA shots…   Once that happens to the Axis player in a couple of games… you realize the Strat Bombing campaign is riskier than you realize.

Fair, but absolutely pounding Moscow for 3 turns in a row with 3 or 4 bombers starting a turn after your Russia invasion begins is well worth the risk, I think.  Literally my first unit purchase for Germany is to make sure I have 4 bombers available at all times, and that means always having 5 on hand.  So if I only have 4, I’m buying one this turn to replace a loss.

I normally use 3. The 4th bomber has a really high chance of having it’s damage wasted. Like about 1/3 of it. Of course, if one bomber is shot down then you’re probably glad for the 4th one so it’s a gamble either way.

@simon33:

I normally use 3. The 4th bomber has a really high chance of having it’s damage wasted. Like about 1/3 of it. Of course, if one bomber is shot down then you’re probably glad for the 4th one so it’s a gamble either way.

Average damage per bomber should be 5 (roll a 3 then add 2), so 4 gives me some cushion if I lose one (or two) AND means I’ll almost certainly max it and not have to bomb again for a turn.

@The:

@Cornwallis:

So you bomb London and later in the game Moscow and India.
Do you usually built with germany in order to attack and take Moscow or do you built units to withstand an attack from moscow so you can bypass and take middle east NO’s?

As Germany, I bomb every Soviet IC my bombers will reach. Hit Novgorod and Ukraine on the turn I declare war, then Moscow and Volgograd as I get within bombing range. Don’t let up until the turn you capture them. On the Western Front, I keep 2 bombers busy hitting London every turn.

Rather than Italian can openers, I prefer the Germans initially handle the USSR on their own, while I focus on getting the Italians into the Middle East as fast as possible (An I1 amphibious assault into Syria or Trans-Jordan while advancing on Egypt from Tobruk is key). Once Italy has secured the M.E., they can build a minor IC in Iraq or Persia, assault through the Caucasus and meet the Germans in Volgograd.

For the Germans, I build 1-2 strategic bombers per turn, maintaining a minimum of 5 (2 Western Front/3 Eastern Front) at all times. Beyond that, I build mostly armor and mech infantry until I capture Novgorod and/or Ukraine, then build regular infantry and artillery at those ICs. I find the early armor/mech inf build the fastest way to get ground forces from Germany into Russia, which allows me to rapidly gain territory before the Soviets can build up much of a defense force.

What the heck is the UK doing if your Italy is so easily able to “secure the M.E.”? I suck at playing allies and that is something that doesn’t happen to me. Heck I suck at this game period.