Well they would be counters for each nation in a cup that you draw randomly. say 1 inch wooden chits with a decal on it. Icons of say a tank or Battleship if the commander effects those. If you draw a chit and don’t own that piece, you just lost that advantage that turn. The next turn you draw another chit. The used chits stay out of the jar, so the design features will balance in total for both Axis and Allies…or not. Depends on the game played…
Worst Rule Distortions and Misinterpretations
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One of the strangest ideas Larry came up with along with:
Collect money at end of turn
That was not silly, the way the classic SBR worked, it was necessary to keep cash that could be bombed. But now, that the SBR and Submarine convoying mechanic dont need the victim to keep cash, I figure the collect money phase should be moved to the start of a turn, to avoid dubbel dipping, and other gamey tricks.
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Talking about misinterpretations, back in the day when we startet playing the classic MB second edition, there were a lot of confusion, based on the Rulebook was printed in English, and this was long before google translate. As usual, the MB 2 ed was short of chips and short of plastic units. It come with 2 pieces of Carriers, 3 pieces of Bombers, 6 pieces of Tanks, and so on, and we actually believed it was a limit, that you were not allowed to have more than the 3 Bombers in play. Today I know better, since the Rulebook says that if you lack units, just take a piece of paper and wright down what units you want that piece of paper to represent. Not as smooth as an actual plastic sculpt, but it works.
This first misinterpretation made way for the next, namely the dice rolling. We actually believed, that if you attacked with 5 inf, 2 Tanks and 1 Bomber, you should roll all 8 dice simultaneously, and assign all the 1s to the inf, all the 3s to the Tanks, and if there was a 4 it would go to the Bomber. Of course this turned out to be wrong, according to the rulebook. But, in my opinion, this way was better than the correct way, since it favored combined arms. A mix of inf, tanks and aircrafts are stronger than a stack of inf only. Also, this wrong way of rolling dice was faster than the correct way, since you got more hits the first time, and less rounds of combat, and less dice rolling.
The worst rule distortions that comes to mind, was the Revised Battleships bombardment. You could buy like 20 Battleships, then land one infantry, and the 20 battleships would all roll preemptive against the defender. So, for the price of a 3 IPC infantry, you could clean any sea adjacent territory. Luckily, that is taken care of with the current rules
Another bad rule distortion was Trannies defending on 1. You did not need any warships. Just buy a huge stack of Trannies, and all the 1s would sink any attacking sub, Battleships or Bombers.
The use of Trannies as fodder to protect the expensive Battleship was another distortion that is now luckily changed, to a more historical correct rule. To buy Trannies to protect a Battleship, really looked like children, women and VIPs sacrifice themselves to protect the Bodyguard. If that was not a distortion, then nothing is.
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One of the strangest ideas Larry came up with along with:
Collect money at end of turn
That was not silly, the way the classic SBR worked, it was necessary to keep cash that could be bombed. But now, that the SBR and Submarine convoying mechanic dont need the victim to keep cash, I figure the collect money phase should be moved to the start of a turn, to avoid dubbel dipping, and other gamey tricks.
On Triple A, it would not be difficult to make this change. Anyway, you can only purchase at the beginning of your turn.
But on F-2-F, purchase phase and decision can take time. Knowing in advance how much you have seems a way to accelerate things. Don’t you think? -
Another bad rule distortion was Trannies defending on 1. You did not need any warships. Just buy a huge stack of Trannies, and all the 1s would sink any attacking sub, Battleships or Bombers.
The use of Trannies as fodder to protect the expensive Battleship was another distortion that is now luckily changed, to a more historical correct rule. To buy Trannies to protect a Battleship, really looked like children, women and VIPs sacrifice themselves to protect the Bodyguard. If that was not a distortion, then nothing is.
This did not work well in classic but it works fine after adding 2 hit capital ships, 6 IPC subs and 8 IPC DDs. This old thread explains it:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30618.0
We’ve played with classic transports for years with no complaints. Why do so many balk at transports sinking a battleship but they are still fine with foot soldiers shooting down strategic bombers? Its all abstracted to a certain degree.
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I honestly wanted to add a very complex rule where certain units do better against others but it forces the attacker to actually assign attacks during combat. It will slow the game down but make it interesting. For example. Fighters do 4 against other fighters, 5 against bombers, 3 against tanks, 2 against infantry, and 1 against any naval unit.
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@Caesar:
I honestly wanted to add a very complex rule where certain units do better against others but it forces the attacker to actually assign attacks during combat. It will slow the game down but make it interesting. For example. Fighters do 4 against other fighters, 5 against bombers, 3 against tanks, 2 against infantry, and 1 against any naval unit.
Yeah I tried something like that once but the battle board ended up looking so complicated I was scared away from it.
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The simpler I got in that direction was to create a Fg Cost 7 with Attack @2 and Defense @2, which target air first.
Allowing TcB Cost 8 Attack @3 Defense @2 to target any ground units.Fighters work very well if you start rolling planes first.
Adding TcB targeting is manageable too.
Combining both need a bit more focus when rolling dice. It slow things a little.But now, that I read that TcBs as an Anti-Tank weapon was more a myth than reality, I would keep only Fighter as a targeting unit.
And it is within A&A game mechanisms if you look at 1914 planes. -
The only rule I ever got wrong in my life was the rule where you can capture allied territories and claim them if their capital was under control by the enemy. My friend corrected me about this but he did so thinking that should be the rule via logic and didn’t know himself that was an actual rule.
On the other side, he once tried to argue that liberating a territory should be under his control and not return to the original owner. This came up when he once played UK and he liberated several Soviet and US territories back when China used to be US instead of itself. I told him this isn’t the 1950’s.
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@Caesar:
On the other side, he once tried to argue that liberating a territory should be under his control and not return to the original owner. This came up when he once played UK and he liberated several Soviet and US territories back when China used to be US instead of itself. I told him this isn’t the 1950’s.
:lol:
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@Der:
We’ve played with classic transports for years with no complaints. Why do so many balk at transports sinking a battleship but they are still fine with foot soldiers shooting down strategic bombers? Its all abstracted to a certain degree.� Â
No. A foot Soldier in the game does not single handedly shoot down strategic bombers. That would be ridiculous. An infantry unit on the board of axis and allies represents an unknown size unit. Due to the size of the territory and battle representations on the board (even dropping 1 infantry on an island in the pacific represents at least the size of a division). Most infantry divisions have organic internal Anti-Air Artillery. So, it’s not like there couldn’t have been an internal capability. Albeit, not as good as the capability of an entire unit of AAA, as represented on the board or in real life.
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@Baron:
The simpler I got in that direction was to create a Fg Cost 7 with Attack @2 and Defense @2, which target air first.
Allowing TcB Cost 8 Attack @3 Defense @2 to target any ground units.Fighters work very well if you start rolling planes first.
Adding TcB targeting is manageable too.
Combining both need a bit more focus when rolling dice. It slow things a little.But now, that I read that TcBs as an Anti-Tank weapon was more a myth than reality, I would keep only Fighter as a targeting unit.
And it is within A&A game mechanisms if you look at 1914 planes.Of all the house rules I’ve read on the different forums, this idea of a cheaper, less powerful fighter that targets air units intrigues me the most. The TcB idea would seem to lend itself more toward naval battles with a division between fighters and dive bombers/torpedo planes, in which case targeting of naval units would make perfect sense.
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I tell people to picture land units a battalion size, aircraft as a wing, and naval as itself meaning 1 for 1.
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@Caesar:
I tell people to picture land units a battalion size, aircraft as a wing, and naval as itself meaning 1 for 1.
Nice distortion. :-)
But can it lead to misinterpretations?
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@Baron:
The simpler I got in that direction was to create a Fg Cost 7 with Attack @2 and Defense @2, which target air first.
Allowing TcB Cost 8 Attack @3 Defense @2 to target any ground units.Fighters work very well if you start rolling planes first.
Adding TcB targeting is manageable too.
Combining both need a bit more focus when rolling dice. It slow things a little.But now, that I read that TcBs as an Anti-Tank weapon was more a myth than reality, I would keep only Fighter as a targeting unit.
And it is within A&A game mechanisms if you look at 1914 planes.Of all the house rules I’ve read on the different forums, this idea of a cheaper, less powerful fighter that targets air units intrigues me the most. The TcB idea would seem to lend itself more toward naval battles with a division between fighters and dive bombers/torpedo planes, in which case targeting of naval units would make perfect sense.
When I played, Destroyer at 8 IPCs were less use as fodder compared to Fighter at 7 IPCs.
Usually, I found that loosing planes before boats was a better depiction than the actual OOB where Fighters D@4 remain in SZ while all Carriers has been sunk because of their poor defense @2.A Carrier at 16 IPCs defending @2 was kept last compared to a Fg Defending @2 for 7 IPCs.
The other difference to make it works correctly in Naval Operation is to make Carriers able to hold 3 planes.
You can use TcB A2-3 (A3 with Tank or Fg) D2 C7 or C8, it works. (But you have to adjust your setup 2 OOBs Fgs gives 3 weaker Fgs.) -
@Baron:
@Caesar:
I tell people to picture land units a battalion size, aircraft as a wing, and naval as itself meaning 1 for 1.
Nice distortion. :-)
But can it lead to misinterpretations?
I just tell them that because of logic issues like how in the hell can an infantry shoot down a bomber? You have to use some imagination with the game. Unless you do exactly what I wanted to do make units have strength and weakness because if I had my way, infantry cannot shoot at aircraft.
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@Der:
@Caesar:
I honestly wanted to add a very complex rule where certain units do better against others but it forces the attacker to actually assign attacks during combat. It will slow the game down but make it interesting. For example. Fighters do 4 against other fighters, 5 against bombers, 3 against tanks, 2 against infantry, and 1 against any naval unit.
Yeah I tried something like that once but the battle board ended up looking so complicated I was scared away from it.
Yeah, you would have to come up with a whole new battle board but that also means that attack would end up picking what gets destroyed instead of the defense doing that.
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You guys would probably really like the OOP, Guadalcanal edition, as you roll from a battle box and match your dice to specific casualty types.
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Sure but I refer WWII has a whole vs a single battle.