How to handle the Italian fleet R1?

@tamer-of-beasts Often when that happened 2 things would go down:

British navy pulls back and I can immediately crush France and Britain’s navy atleast by round 2

French-North Africa is secured easily

Then there is the British stack in Egypt, usually they pile up there and leave 1 infantry in Alexandria. I often sacrifice my 3 units in Ethiopia to take Sudan and Kenya, letting UK bottle me up through there (which I am fine with)

If I have the transports and the US hasn’t secured Gibraltar yet, most of the times Egypt falls I dont know maybe round 3-4 and then the Middle East (unless they built a factory in Persia, my chances of winning Egypt are hindered)

But it just depends on the Allies if they are good or not :slightly_smiling_face: Italy often doesnt win Taranto but it has happened once or twice before.

Then the US comes in and it is either I have enough income to sustain a fleet capable of securing the Med and subsequently not having North Africa liberated – or I loose like 2 of my transports and cant reinforce Africa any longer so there is lots of choices there.

Usually round 1 I take Yugoslavia and South France, I haven’t done a “Mainland France Kill G1” before but I might next time I play as Germany. Greece goes next maybe round 2 (there is an inside-joke that Yugoslavia and Greece are warriors because they always roll at 2’s or lower. Usually it takes much more than needed to take out Yugo and Greece so who knows the outcome)

Sometimes UK takes Greece (idk why most players dont do this but I guess they dont want to sacrifice their Egypt dudes and a transport) but it is a sting in the butt for Germany and Italy.

Hmmmm what else IDK

@oysteilo yea buying ships with the ussr is not a good idea

I normally maintain peace with the west and go after USSR & China. There’s a possibility of a UK2 DOW with that. I think USSR’s best response is to hold in Buryatia. Those troops aren’t getting back to Moscow in time anyway. I’ve never seen USSR helping out China but maybe it would make sense if there’s no UK2 DOW? The Soviet air force could defend against strategic bombing G3 and also defend Yunnan J3. Never thought about that before.

@Tolstoj:

Retreating to the Red Sea seems like a good option. The downside seems to me that Italy can block the British way into the Med. At Gibraltar British options seem more attractive:

1. Converging with the US fleet
2. Threatening to land in Italy or France
3. Pressure on the Italian fleet
4. Landing you airforce to help in the above mentioned

I agree. Add to that list that by bringing the planes closer to the UK you make Sea Lion a lot more difficult, which allows you to avoid “turtle infantry builds”.  The airbase at Gibraltar (depends on where the German air is located) has long term benefits. It’s a tremendous force multiplier (protects 91 and 92 with same units). You can reinforce Egypt immediately with air.

If Germany makes a build that isn’t suited to Sea Lion, then it seems better to simply strike 97 to finish the Italians (goes long way to secure Egypt) and scratch the German air force.

Indeed exactly my point!

This seems to be the axis paradigm.
Axis must choose a theatre where they want to win: Russia, London/Atlantic or the Mediterranean/Africa. I guess attacking the neutrals falls in all 3 theatres at the same time, so if the axis want to go for the neutrals they still must decide which 1 of the three above theatres they want to be winning in.

Axis should realize that against good allied opposition they can win in 1 area but expect to loose in the 2 other areas. Perhaps not immediately, but still inevitable.
For example: after a ‘successfull’ Sea Lion, Russia might not be able to immediately take Berlin, but Germany taking Moscow should be out of the question as well. Which is an allied win already if the USA can either liberate London or neutralise  Japan (isolate a must, no need to conquer Tokyo).

Same story in the Pacific.
In short: The axis can win anywhere, but not everywhere (at the same time)!

Note that I play 2nd edition. I don’t know how this compares to alpha+3.

The first thing that I look out for with the UK, is what is Germany doing? IF a serious sea-lion is posed, I move every available ship from the UK med-fleet (and the french if they survive) to Gibraltar, as well as every ratty old plane the UK has in the med. This requires removal of the Italian TRS+DD in SZ96 in the 2nd edition.
With this move and smart builds in London, Sea Lion will fail miserably. Italy on the other hand will be stronger in Africa but you can’t have both London and Cairo. Rest assured that you will take back the latter, if Italy takes it at all. If Germany continues on the Sea Lion Path, all the Gibraltar stuff moves north to fight Germans, who will fail, Russia will roll over Germany and it is game over very quickly for the Axis. EVEN if Lucky dicerolls hands them over London they will not be able to stop the Russians anymore because they will loose too much in the battle of London… Unless they roll SO DAMN Lucky that they manage to keep all their Luftwaffe + take London with their last tank  :roll:
If Germany does NOT continue with Sea Lion (you can tell by their production), move the Gibraltar stuff + STR and FTR from London back into Africa, ending the Italian dreams there with moderate effort.

If Germany never poses/feighns a Sea-Lion threat, do a ‘Taranto’ or ‘Tobruk’ UK1. The specifics vary from the preferences from player to player but in general it comes down to attack as much Italian ships (or its units in Tobruk) with as much of your air/ships.
Personally I prefer to kill all Italian ships in SZ96 and SZ97 with all UK-ships that can get to them plus all aircraft that can get there. Note that the STR in London can get there and land in Malta as well as 2 FTR from London that can land on the CV if necessary. I personally take ships (even the CV) as losses, and land all surviving aircraft (which should very well be all) in Malta, but this may also differ according to your preferences.

If you fear/don’t know how to handle a ‘surprise Sea Lion’ from the Germans, seriously consider to consolidate around Gibraltar UK1, doing ‘Taranto’ (sort of) UK2. Taranto is most effective UK1 but loses not much of its effect if executed UK2.

Good luck and have fun playing!

Any time
Always fun to think and talk about A&A strategy, and tell others about what’s been learned from experience
Happy gaming to you and your buddies

And to answer your question, a lot of people don’t do SeaLion b/cuz it’s not always a guaranteed thing. Depends on what the UK does. If the UK makes it as difficult as possible, then most likely the Germans can take it still but it might be a little dicey and leave them vulnerable to the Russians. If the UK makes it easier then the Germans will be more likely to do a SeaLion. I don’t think a successful SeaLion always means an Axis victory.