How to save Italian fleet

As far as I know there isn’t a single SL fake that does NOT also hurt the axis options in defeating Russia.
You could try to slip in 1 or 2 TRS in your GE1 build to make the UK cower in London because of fear (after all, you CAN go wild if the UK doesn’t prepare properly), hopefully limiting the damage to Barbarossa with only so few TRS built.

Similarly, you could fake Barbarossa and launch a nasty surprise attack on London if the UK goes into the mediterranean too strong. Lots of UK players leave London terribly weak after they think to be certain you are going after Russia. Make sure you can buy 10TRS GE2 and turn around your wehrmacht to punish. IT2 can raid the London AB so the UK cannot scramble GE3 (5/6 times, I know…).

An interesting alternative is to buy nothing at all GE1, to leave all options open, thus forcing the UK to protect London. Your barbarossa will be a little less threatening but the UK should be much more cautious because Germany can punish any misstep.

By GE2 however, your plans will (and should) be crystal clear to every1. Germany cannot afford to ‘keep all the options open’ GE2. In case of a SL fake, the UK is free to pursue Italy from then on.

The best you can achieve is that your UK opponents will come to fear your German surprises in the future and protect/cower accordingly thus giving Italy some breathing space.

The downside of all of this, is that the UK can stack London massively from UK1 and still do ‘Taranto’, thwarting all Germany can do about London with a fake, save a dedicated sea lion from the start (which involves the buying of at least a CV as well)…

I am assuming that you send a German fighter to South Italy to help the Italians. Aside from doing that, and like ItIsILeClerc mentioned at least threatening Sealion, if your UK player is bound and determined to wipe out the Italian fleet, I don’t think there is much you can do.
Personally, when I play the UK, I don’t like doing the Taranto raid. I think it makes England too weak in the Med and Italy still has some navy left in SZ 95. Still, I know that a lot of UK players out there just LOVE to do the Taranto raid. Plus, if they get lucky dice, they could be left with the carrier and some planes. Do they also wipe out your Tobruk force as well? That is one thing I like to do as UK.
So, assuming UK hits you at Tobruk and Taranto, what you have left is CA, DD, SS and Transport in SZ 95, Infantry/Artillery in Libya, 2 Infantry 1 Artillery in Ethiopia and 1 Infantry in Italian Somaliland. You probably lost your fighters in the Taranto raid but still have your bomber in N Italy. Plus your 6 infantry in the capital, your land forces in N Italy and Albania still intact.
First, does the UK have ANY ships left? or did they all die in the Taranto raid? Did the CA in SZ 91 help clear SZ 96? Or did you just have planes for that one?
Okay, if there are any UK ships left, plus there is probably still the French CA/DD in SZ 93, you should use what is left of your navy plus your bomber to try and kill the remaining Allied ships. That way you get your Med NO and Italy sorely needs that income. Use your remaining transport to move forces from N Italy and combine with Albania to take Greece. Use your Libyan forces to take Tunisia, your Ethiopian forces to take Sudan and Somaliland infantry to take Kenya. With any luck, Italy can scoop in 20 IPCs. After that, it will be slow for Italy but you should be able to put up a good fight against the UK.

A couple of suggestions to help Italy from Germany round 1.
Send 2 subs to kill that British cruiser in SZ 91. That will be one less ship for the Brits to try clearing out the Med and one less ship for what’s left of the Italian fleet to take out.
Send a couple of planes to take out the French CA/DD in SZ 93. Two less ships for the Italians to have to deal with plus if Germany takes Southern France on G1, you won’t get convoy raided. I know it’s hard to spare those planes with the massive German attacks against the Royal Navy, but it can pay off, especially for Italy.

Nice Knp.

Actually I like to have Italy take Southern France I1 and Normandy I2.  Its so much easier for Italy to take on 1inf & 1art in each territory than 5 inf and 4 inf.  Yugo(2) + Bulgaria(1) + Greece(2) = Southern France(3) & Normandy(2).  Its so much easier and quicker for Germany to take on Yugo and Greece than Italy.  The key to keeping Italy alive is to keep the door shut (Gibraltar).  If I lose Italy’s navy in I1 I will declare war on the neutrals with Germany and on G2 take Spain, Sweden & Greece. I set myself up to take Turkey G3(5inf + 3tanks, + 2S.Bombers + 5Tbombers + 2 Fighters).  Not being at war with Russia helps. They just have to watch as you poise to steal all that oil on G4.  On I2 have that tank you took Southern with to take Gibraltar. Now the door is shut.  Move the Navy to SZ 97 where all those German Fighters and T bombers are to protect you.  Get ready to start transporting into SZ 100 and gut Russia.  Russia will have so many choices it will spread them very thin and take their eye off the force heading to their capital. To play it safe if there is alot of air power in the middle east you can just sit in SZ 97 and transport inf and mech to Greece. If you violate neutrality you have to move fast and keep USA out until turn 4.  You and Japan have to be on the same page. ;)

Just because you send a German fighter to S. Italy doesn’t mean you have to scramble. I find that sending the fighter has more benefit in just forcing UK to max Taranto (i.e. send the carrier) if they want to guarantee its success. If you don’t scramble, UK ends up getting left with maximum DD, CA, CV, 2 figs (if you only get one hit and they take the tac as casualty) in SZ 97 that the entire Luftwaffe can smash G2 for 2-3 planes. So you at worst end up still losing 3 planes, but Italy’s airforce is still in tact to wipe the French fleet I1 and take Greece I2, as well as the UK having to send in navy from somewhere else to deny the Clear Med NO.

A lot of this depends on whether you kill the canadian transport and/or 91 cruiser.

@Imperious:

Just because you send a German fighter to S. Italy doesn’t mean you have to scramble

We sent it both times, once it scrambled and the other time not. Both times UK sent everything in reach and even with the extra DD, everything lost. Thats why we didn’t scramble the German fighter the second time because we didn’t want to add throwing good money after bad.

A lot of this depends on whether you kill the canadian transport and/or 91 cruiser

With what? BY whom?

With subs, by Germany, of course.  Who else can kill them, before UK1?

@Imperious:

Is their some way to fake Sealion so that UK does not destroy the Italian fleet on UK1?

Consider buying nothing at all on G1.

If they don’t defend London adequately, plop down a fleet on G2. If they defend London adequately, then you can spend the IPC however you like.

This may not deter SZ96/97 attacks, but it’s the best “fake” in my opinion.

I’ve tried the Taranto attack enough times to know that it’s not a sure thing.
I reccomend you scramble the German fighter,tac and one Italian fighter every time your opponent tries it.

Also, if you’re getting a bid of 11 for Italy, I’d suggest buying a tac/fighter instead of a dd that gets sunk before you get to use it. The tac/fighter would bolster the counter-attack on any UK ships that might survive…or you could use it on the French.

@captain:

I’ve tried the Taranto attack enough times to know that it’s not a sure thing.
I reccomend you scramble the German fighter,tac and one Italian fighter every time your opponent tries it.

Also, if you’re getting a bid of 11 for Italy, I’d suggest buying a tac/fighter instead of a dd that gets sunk before you get to use it. The tac/fighter would bolster the counter-attack on any UK ships that might survive…or you could use it on the French.

How often does axis receive a bid?

Really…that’s big bonus for Italy as far as I’m concerned.
I’d like to play Italy in a game where they start with 21!

11 ipc axis is big regardless,  considering how most of the players on here believe that axis already have the edge.

UK does Taranto most times in our games too because they simply don’t fear Sea lion much. Alpha+3 gave the English a pretty big security blanket adding extra inf for def, and extra AAA guns taking hits pushes it even further. The Allies also know that if you spend for Sea Lion (6-10 transports) that Russia will be a monster, and the US can probably liberate London easily and trash your tranny fleet anyway.

With that said, I will still threaten Sea Lion (you need to carry it out sometimes too keep them guessing). A typical buy might be a carrier and transport G1 (and do not kill off the German battle ship) so that I have a couple transports, loaded carrier, BB, and cruiser sitting in sz 112. That will make them at least think twice about sending the bulk of the RAF to the Med. You can still use the fleet to go after Russia through the Baltic. Your improved fleet will also help you retake Norway if they get it, and make the Allies bulk up more then they want to if going north (may even delay them a turn later in the game). You of course still need to hit both English BBs in the Atlantic.

If they are doing Taranto, there are two streams of thought:

1. Scramble all 3 ftrs (2 Italian, 1 German) and try to take out as much of UK’s navy as possible, then counter attack (they will try to preserve air power most likely sacking the DD carrier and one ftr maybe more).

2. Don’t scramble any, lose the sz 97 navy (it’s gone anyway), but the UK has some choices to make if you mange to get a couple hits. The UK will probably leave the carrier loaded, and what ever ships are left (flying their remaining air to safety). They know that either Italy of Germany is going to kill it in a counter attack. The tricky thing is the defending carrier in your counter attack, if they take a hit on the carrier their planes will die (can’t land) so it can be very interesting if you don’t scramble, and plan a counter attack.

Italy’s navy gets clobbered most games, you just need to make sure that it hurts the UK. I agree that trying to take out the UK cruiser in sz 91 (Gib) helps some. We normally attack both sz91 Gib, and sz 106 Canada w/1 sub each hoping to get one or the other, but take 2 subs at 91 so that cruiser doesn’t hit you. Sending a German ftr to S Italy is a must so you have the ability to scramble 3 ftrs (1 German, 2 Italian). Just because you can doesn’t mean you should though.

Give some more territory to Italy so they can get their income up. You might try to strafe Yogo w/Germany G1 so Italy can take it It1 easily (when doing this bring one inf from Romania so all your units can leap frog to Romania in the retreat BTW). We have even seen Germany smack Paris, and back out so Italy can get the 19 IPCs to rebuild their navy (there is some risk there, but we’ve never seen the RAF land in Paris to try keeping France alive).

Anyway, good gaming IL

@ColonelCarter:

Just because you send a German fighter to S. Italy doesn’t mean you have to scramble. I find that sending the fighter has more benefit in just forcing UK to max Taranto (i.e. send the carrier) if they want to guarantee its success. If you don’t scramble, UK ends up getting left with maximum DD, CA, CV, 2 figs (if you only get one hit and they take the tac as casualty) in SZ 97 that the entire Luftwaffe can smash G2 for 2-3 planes. So you at worst end up still losing 3 planes, but Italy’s airforce is still in tact to wipe the French fleet I1 and take Greece I2, as well as the UK having to send in navy from somewhere else to deny the Clear Med NO.

That is a very interesting idea that never occurred to me. This could waste a lot of UK units and give the Italians a bit of an edge. A little rough on the Luftwaffe, those planes might be hard to replace when your building land forces for Barbarossa. Still, good to give the Italians a push.

Agreed. You must have the German Ft there. I have two.
UK has to throw in every available plane, just in case.
Then Italy can decide not scramble, as Colonel Carter said. Italy will have little or no income, because the UK fleet is off Italy, but if you realise and accept that, Germany can sink them on its G2.