How to save Italian fleet

@Imperious:

Just because you send a German fighter to S. Italy doesn’t mean you have to scramble

We sent it both times, once it scrambled and the other time not. Both times UK sent everything in reach and even with the extra DD, everything lost. Thats why we didn’t scramble the German fighter the second time because we didn’t want to add throwing good money after bad.

A lot of this depends on whether you kill the canadian transport and/or 91 cruiser

With what? BY whom?

With subs, by Germany, of course.  Who else can kill them, before UK1?

@Imperious:

Is their some way to fake Sealion so that UK does not destroy the Italian fleet on UK1?

Consider buying nothing at all on G1.

If they don’t defend London adequately, plop down a fleet on G2. If they defend London adequately, then you can spend the IPC however you like.

This may not deter SZ96/97 attacks, but it’s the best “fake” in my opinion.

I’ve tried the Taranto attack enough times to know that it’s not a sure thing.
I reccomend you scramble the German fighter,tac and one Italian fighter every time your opponent tries it.

Also, if you’re getting a bid of 11 for Italy, I’d suggest buying a tac/fighter instead of a dd that gets sunk before you get to use it. The tac/fighter would bolster the counter-attack on any UK ships that might survive…or you could use it on the French.

@captain:

I’ve tried the Taranto attack enough times to know that it’s not a sure thing.
I reccomend you scramble the German fighter,tac and one Italian fighter every time your opponent tries it.

Also, if you’re getting a bid of 11 for Italy, I’d suggest buying a tac/fighter instead of a dd that gets sunk before you get to use it. The tac/fighter would bolster the counter-attack on any UK ships that might survive…or you could use it on the French.

How often does axis receive a bid?

Really…that’s big bonus for Italy as far as I’m concerned.
I’d like to play Italy in a game where they start with 21!

11 ipc axis is big regardless,  considering how most of the players on here believe that axis already have the edge.

UK does Taranto most times in our games too because they simply don’t fear Sea lion much. Alpha+3 gave the English a pretty big security blanket adding extra inf for def, and extra AAA guns taking hits pushes it even further. The Allies also know that if you spend for Sea Lion (6-10 transports) that Russia will be a monster, and the US can probably liberate London easily and trash your tranny fleet anyway.

With that said, I will still threaten Sea Lion (you need to carry it out sometimes too keep them guessing). A typical buy might be a carrier and transport G1 (and do not kill off the German battle ship) so that I have a couple transports, loaded carrier, BB, and cruiser sitting in sz 112. That will make them at least think twice about sending the bulk of the RAF to the Med. You can still use the fleet to go after Russia through the Baltic. Your improved fleet will also help you retake Norway if they get it, and make the Allies bulk up more then they want to if going north (may even delay them a turn later in the game). You of course still need to hit both English BBs in the Atlantic.

If they are doing Taranto, there are two streams of thought:

1. Scramble all 3 ftrs (2 Italian, 1 German) and try to take out as much of UK’s navy as possible, then counter attack (they will try to preserve air power most likely sacking the DD carrier and one ftr maybe more).

2. Don’t scramble any, lose the sz 97 navy (it’s gone anyway), but the UK has some choices to make if you mange to get a couple hits. The UK will probably leave the carrier loaded, and what ever ships are left (flying their remaining air to safety). They know that either Italy of Germany is going to kill it in a counter attack. The tricky thing is the defending carrier in your counter attack, if they take a hit on the carrier their planes will die (can’t land) so it can be very interesting if you don’t scramble, and plan a counter attack.

Italy’s navy gets clobbered most games, you just need to make sure that it hurts the UK. I agree that trying to take out the UK cruiser in sz 91 (Gib) helps some. We normally attack both sz91 Gib, and sz 106 Canada w/1 sub each hoping to get one or the other, but take 2 subs at 91 so that cruiser doesn’t hit you. Sending a German ftr to S Italy is a must so you have the ability to scramble 3 ftrs (1 German, 2 Italian). Just because you can doesn’t mean you should though.

Give some more territory to Italy so they can get their income up. You might try to strafe Yogo w/Germany G1 so Italy can take it It1 easily (when doing this bring one inf from Romania so all your units can leap frog to Romania in the retreat BTW). We have even seen Germany smack Paris, and back out so Italy can get the 19 IPCs to rebuild their navy (there is some risk there, but we’ve never seen the RAF land in Paris to try keeping France alive).

Anyway, good gaming IL

@ColonelCarter:

Just because you send a German fighter to S. Italy doesn’t mean you have to scramble. I find that sending the fighter has more benefit in just forcing UK to max Taranto (i.e. send the carrier) if they want to guarantee its success. If you don’t scramble, UK ends up getting left with maximum DD, CA, CV, 2 figs (if you only get one hit and they take the tac as casualty) in SZ 97 that the entire Luftwaffe can smash G2 for 2-3 planes. So you at worst end up still losing 3 planes, but Italy’s airforce is still in tact to wipe the French fleet I1 and take Greece I2, as well as the UK having to send in navy from somewhere else to deny the Clear Med NO.

That is a very interesting idea that never occurred to me. This could waste a lot of UK units and give the Italians a bit of an edge. A little rough on the Luftwaffe, those planes might be hard to replace when your building land forces for Barbarossa. Still, good to give the Italians a push.

Agreed. You must have the German Ft there. I have two.
UK has to throw in every available plane, just in case.
Then Italy can decide not scramble, as Colonel Carter said. Italy will have little or no income, because the UK fleet is off Italy, but if you realise and accept that, Germany can sink them on its G2.

@wittmann:

Agreed. You must have the German Ft there. I have two.
UK has to throw in every available plane, just in case.
Then Italy can decide not scramble, as Colonel Carter said. Italy will have little or no income, because the UK fleet is off Italy, but if you realise and accept that, Germany can sink them on its G2.

Agreed, having the ability to scramble 3 ftrs forces the UK to bring it all. Not scrambling is a great option because it sticks the entire UK Med navy in sz 97. This is a very vulnerable position for the UK to be in depending on how many hits the Luftwaffe gets, the carrier can’t take hits in the first round of the counter attack (ftrs will die if Luftwaffe pulls out).

I also noted that you were playing only the Euro side (wrong thread BTW), so this should benefit the Italians somewhat early on. In global the UK knowingly sacrifices the Med fleet, because the Indian fleet is on its way to replace it (maybe adding a ship or two from S Africa). In Europe only there is no Indian fleet coming, so the UK has to build from scratch (plus the English Atlantic fleet should be sunk). In the first couple turns (after the UK Med fleet is at the bottom) the Luftwaffe can hang around S Italy or N Africa to insure the UK can’t get more ships into the Med (Italy’s NO). I also like to take ground with Italy in N Africa, then fly in German ftrs for defense (use the turn order). You might consider saving Italy’s starting income so you can buy a carrier Ita2. This may allow you navigate the Med better depending on how much of the RAF is still in the Med.

In Europe only the US at some point will make Italy’s life difficult, not much you can do about that LOL. There are no Japanese for them to compete with.

@Imperious:

axis already have the edge.

We are playing just Europe, not Global

My bad, did not see you say Europe only.

Imperious Leader, try to stall the Royal Navy and take Malta.

G1 - send two or three Tanks def. to Southern France along with two Fighters (landing in Italy)
S. France is yours now. Clear the Gibraltae seaway with two ,three subs and stall it. (One at least needs to survive)

I 1 - purchase is one Sub. wich is going to stall the remainings of Seazone 97 battle.
Combat move should be invasion of Malta and try to knock out as many Fighters wich might have landed, supported by a Cruiser (switch Cruiser sz 95 with DD 96) and also attack the French vessels in sz 93.
No Scramble on U.K. 1 so you have better support on I 1 turn.
And either invade Gibraltae with the remaining Tranny or Reinforce Italian African forces.

any thought of giving southern france to Germany? with the minor and naval base there, germany can drop some ships in.  A axis AC in the med would be alarming to the allies.

I like Germany to capture and use Southern France for that express purpose jwo1984.

Me too. I have often dropped subs in the Med for Germany to help out the Italians and even harass the US fleet when it gets there. I have also put German transports there to help Italy clear North Africa and get that land unit into Egypt when it falls.
Never really thought of putting an aircraft carrier down there though. That could open up some interesting possibilities. Might even make the Americans wary of going to SZ 91.

Great idea for Germany to produce subs in the Med. Remember subs can move through Gibraltar without the need to control it.