Taking charge of the wehrmacht in late 1941


  • The Battle of Moscow has just ended in a German Defeat. Hitler is killed in an automobile accident and you are now in charge of leading the Germans through the Winter and subsequent summer offensive. You are still convinced that the war can be one so surrender or making peace is out of the Question. Leningrad and Sevastopol are sill being besieged. You have the strength for only one of your three army groups to launch an offensive. What is your proposed offensive to the OKW?


  • @poloplayer15:

    The Battle of Moscow has just ended in a German Defeat. Hitler is killed in an automobile accident and you are now in charge of leading the Germans through the Winter and subsequent summer offensive. You are still convinced that the war can be one so surrender or making peace is out of the Question. Leningrad and Sevastopol are sill being besieged. You have the strength for only one of your three army groups to launch an offensive. What is your proposed offensive to the OKW?

    This is somewhat similar to the set-up for the actual campaign which Germany started in mid-1942, which was aimed at capturing the Caucasus region and its oil fields, but which feel apart when Hitler got sidetracked by Stalingrad.  My alternative would be: go on the defensive all along the existing Eastern Front, then stike towards the Caucusus – but do so from below rather than from above.  In other words: shift my main striking force into the Balkans, then drive into Turkey, Iraq and Iran (capturing the oil in that region too), then swing up into the Caucasus region from the south.


  • I was reading in depth into the Case Blue offensive and that’s where I got the idea for this.

    I would intensify the pressure on both the sieges of Leningrad and Sevastopol and build heavy defensive positions. Wait for the Russians to bleed themselves dry against my lines and then go on the offensive, how ever limited it would be. I would also send more support to Rommel in North Africa.


  • And I’m taking charge as someone with the knowledge of '41 or 2014 polo?

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    As the Battle of Moscow ended in early 1942, so still in the heart of winter, that would certainly not be a good time to launch a new offensive. As a short-term objective, I’d assign more resources to the Crimean campaign to capture Sevastopol as soon as possible and free the armies tied up there. Leningrad, not so much.

    Later in 1942, I’m not sure I’d launch an offensive on the Eastern front at all. I’d primarily rely on the counsel of my generals and field marshals there, and avoid anything overly audacious, and definitely not overextend my already stretched supply lines.
    But I’d be generous in assigning resources to the battles in the extreme North and South. Help the Fins to try to capture Murmansk again and cut off Allied supplies to the Soviets. And give Rommel enough men and material to take Egypt and reach Iraq and Iran, and bank on Arab support. Ideally, I’d team up with Iran to kick the British and the Russians out and cut off the Persian corridor as well. And there’s oil to be had there!
    I’d respect Turkish neutrality though. It’s a big and populous country, with difficult terrain, and defeating it would drain German resources that could be better used elsewhere. Istanbul could be taken, but crossing the Bosporus would be a real challenge and require a naval presence that would be hard to find. And Allied support would start pouring in from the East very soon.

    And here’s a good point made by Aeqitas et Veritas: it’s all hindsight of course, and the fact that we know how it turned out in reality makes it easier to decide what not to do.


  • 1941 knowledge Veritas.

    From the German perspective, the Battle of Moscow ended in early December and German Generals asked Hitler to pull back to shorten their lines and rest/reequip their forces. The soviet counterattack lasted well into January.


  • @poloplayer15:

    1941 knowledge Veritas.
    From the German perspective, the Battle of Moscow ended in early December and German Generals asked Hitler to pull back to shorten their lines and rest/reequip their forces. The soviet counterattack lasted well into January.Â

    One overall planning assumption that I’d make as the German commander-in-chief, and which I think would already have been fairly evident from the events of June 1941 to January 1942, is that I could count on the German army operating at its best in summer conditions, at intermediate effectiveness in the spring and fall, and at its worst under winter conditions (with the reverse being true for the Soviets).  This would still leave open the question of what the Wehrmach should do in specific terms, but it would translate into the general principle of: attack in summer, defend in winter, and remain flexible (in case unforeseen opportunities or setbacks occur) in fall and spring.


  • I think I’d give space for time and counter attack opportunities with the Russian offensive in Jan of 41. Essentially, fighting delaying actions to allow the Russian offensive to peter out while at the same time shortening my supply line and preserving my “punching power” for a counter offensive, creating a salient for their large army formations. Then I would hit the flanks of that salient to surround the Army group while my tanks and supply trains can move on the permafrost before it melts in the spring and bogs everything down. With Moscow still being threatened, I imagine the Russian high command would be forced to displace forces in both the North and the South to protect their capital giving breathing room to my forces on those fronts to make advances in time for a summer offensive that can kick off at a much greater strategic advantage.

    If that’s not possible I would go after Leningrad to cut off the lend lease aid that really kicked into high gear during 1942 and it would also free up those formations to be used elsewhere for either a beefing up of the Afrika corps as well as a push south into the Caucuses.


  • Well ,then I would propably messed up by pulling my Forces back and trying to regroup.
    As babaric the order of Hitler was against the good advise of his Staff, it still kept him in good shape for the Sommeroffense. Since I would have listend to my Generals and pulled back the Frontline, I would have to rethink the Strategy for the next summer having lost a lot of good personell and heavy equipment by Soviet counterattacks.

    Trying to reinforce Army Group North and South for the summer then and finding a weak spot in the South, I would still try to go to the Caucasus as well ,depending on my losses and the losses of the Russians and their exhaustion.
    Shorter supply routes and the better range of my Bombers and Fighters would allow me to still think positiv and agressiv.

    I would eliminate the SS Divisions and SS-Police Divisions and refilling my losses with them towards Waffen-SS and Wehrmacht personell. I would demand higher production rate at home and figuring out ways of simplify Tanks and mobil Artillery modells. I would not declare War on America. Seeing how that would play out.


  • The OP has posed a good question. I’ll start off by saying that I’m willing to take shameless advantage of data the Germans didn’t have, and of 20/20 hindsight. With that data, that hindsight, and plenty of time to think about all this, I’ve come up with what I feel is a decent plan.

    1. Pull back on the Eastern front to shorten supply lines. Yes, this represents the surrender of valuable, hard-fought ground. But pulling back will allow me to better feed and reammunition my troops; and will also make it easier to provide them with winter clothing. I’m surrendering some of the strategic initiative on the Eastern front, but I’m keeping the core of my army strength intact.

    2. Transfer some strength to the border with Turkey.

    3. Meet with Turkish leaders and congratulate them on the fact that Turkey will be joining the Axis. When they point out that they have not, in fact, agreed to join the Axis, my rebuttal is, “Turkey will be joining the Axis whether you guys agree or not!” That’s the stick. The carrot is the opportunity for them to reclaim much of the territory Britain took from the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI. Hopefully this carrot and stick approach will be enough to get Turkey to join.

    4. Become more aggressive at seizing food supplies in conquered Polish, French, and Soviet territory. Some of the later steps will require ready access to food, and Germany’s wartime food situation was abysmal. Seizing food from conquered territory was their only real option for freeing up large quantities of additional food.

    5. Inform the people in conquered territories that if a young man volunteers for service in the German military, his family will receive a substantial food bonus. A bonus which might make the difference between life and death. This will allow me to add large numbers of French, Polish, and Soviet soldiers to my army.

    6. If a division described in 5) fights well in a particular battle, the food bonus is increased by 20%. If it fights poorly, the bonus is decreased by 20%. If a soldier is killed in combat, his family receives the bonus + 40% for the rest of the war.

    7. Using Turkey as my base, I would want to strike north into the Caucasus, east toward Iraq and Persia, and southwest toward Egypt. Turkish soldiers would be part of these offenses, as would any other Muslims I could convince to fight for me. I’d be willing to make substantial promises to encourage as many Muslim men to join my army as possible.

    8. In 1942, my approach toward the Soviet Union would be opportunistic. If there was a chance to launch an offensive the Soviets didn’t expect, and achieve a highly favorable exchange rate, I’d do it. But other than offensives like those, my default posture would be defensive.

    9. I would not undertake a V1 or V2 campaign against Britain. However, I would tell Werner von Braun to develop longer ranged, more advanced Aggregate Series rockets as quickly as possible.

    10. I would also proceed full bore with chemical weapons research and manufacture. Germany was at least ten years ahead of the Allies in the development of new chemical weapons. If a nation used a nuclear device to destroy one of my cities, I would use chemical weapons to destroy two of his. These chemical weapons would be delivered to their targets via the Aggregate Series rockets described in 9).

    11. I would also allocate large numbers of engineers to jet aircraft development, E-Series tanks, long range Panzerfaust weapons, assault rifles, and Type XXI U-boats.

    12. By 1943, I should be strong enough to launch a limited offensive in the Caucasus. The hope would be for the prong from Turkey to join the prong from the main German Army. However, all the newly trained Polish, French, Soviet, and Muslim soldiers I’ve added to my army will be largely balanced out by the huge numbers of new recruits added to the Red Army. So I won’t be able to crush the Soviet Union just yet.

    13. In 1945, at least 40% of my military production should be converted to Wunderwaffen; assuming there’s a relevant Wunderwaffen for the category in question. For example, at least 40% of my sub production for that year should be Type XXI U-boats, 40% of my handheld anti-infantry weapons should be assault rifles, 40% of my tank production should be E-Series tanks, and 40% of my aircraft production should be jets. I’d want that percentage to increase to at least 70% by 1946.

    14. By 1947 it would at last be time to launch a major offensive against the Soviet Union. My force ought to be numerically superior to the Soviets’ due to all the non-Germans I’ve added. The German component of my army will be equipped with significantly better weapons than their Soviet counterparts. Germany will have air supremacy over the battlefield due to all its jets. Access to oil from the Persian Gulf and the Caucasus will solve many of my supply problems. Instead of using rail + horse (as oil-poor Germany was often forced to do) I can use large numbers of military trucks to deliver supplies to the front.

    15. Hopefully I take control before Germany has declared war on the U.S. Even with the U.S. technically neutral, I still have to worry about America’s vast production capacity being used to destroy me. But at least its nominal neutrality gets me out of having to face the U.S. Army. On the other hand, pro-war forces inside the U.S. would probably succeed in getting America to go to war eventually; just as they succeeded in getting us into WWI. But even a delay of a year or two would be highly useful for my purposes.

    16. If the U.S. did go to war, I’d have to counter the American offensive in three ways. First, I’d use a substantial part of my German and non-German forces to deal with the American threat. Second, I’d use large numbers of jet aircraft to challenge America’s dominance over the skies. Third, I’d use smart bombs, such as the Fritz X, to attack American shipping. The more American troop ships and supply ships I sink, the harder it will be for the U.S. to sustain a European offensive. And the easier it will be for me to push them back into the sea.

    17. Type XXI U-boats would prove devastating against Allied shipping. This would be my defense against American arms shipments to the Soviet Union and Britain. These U-boats would also interfere with food shipments to Britain; thereby potentially forcing the British to abandon their demand for unconditional German surrender.

    18. With the Soviet Union defeated, and Britain forced to negotiate an end to hostilities, the time would come to convince America to give up its own demand for unconditional surrender. This would be difficult. After having neutralized hostile elements in Europe, Asia, and Africa, I’d need to build a substantial fleet. With a sufficient number of u-boats, aircraft carriers, jets, destroyers, and other ships, I could achieve dominance in the Atlantic; and begin blockading American ports. Shelling American ports. Conquering useful-looking islands in the Caribbean to use as bases for future operations. With sufficiently long-ranged bombers, such as the Horten H.XVIII, I could begin a campaign of strategic bombing against most American military production centers. Hopefully by this point American politicians would see reason, and accept the fact that America could not convince Germany to surrender unconditionally in this war any more than it could have convinced Britain to unconditionally surrender in the War of 1812.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I would get as much Nazi gold into a swiss bank as soon as possible and disappear with the money.  USA was in it, and the gig was up.

    Maybe i could sell information for my amnesty - inglorious basterd style!


  • Germany already lost the war by late 1941. The decision tree should have been changed before June 41. Perhaps even just after France was defeated, Germany had a decent chance but wasted a whole year doing nothing and let Herman squander planes, let the pro fascist government in Yugoslavia get ousted, and bailed out Italian folly in Greece/ Crete.


  • As the new German national leader I would first focus the war effort in the East in destroying the Soviet garrison of Sevastopol. I would then move to take Leningrad.

    I would recommend the front to remain on the defensive. The Germans gave the Red Army a nasty defeat in the Second Battle of Kharkov. I would hope to inflict several such defeats on the Reds in counter attacks.

    I would enter the Winter of 42 in Peace talks; while rearming for a another push for Moscow if Peace could not be met.


  • starting to see a general theme developing here :-D


  • I would enter the Winter of 42 in Peace talks

    But Stalin was only interested in these talks in October 41 ( about Oct 16-18th) when Germany was around Smolensk. He had to decide to stay or leave Moscow to be taken and was preparing to get on his train and a second time was early in 42. By late 42 the war created changes that would not make peace possible that would benefit Germany.


  • @Imperious:

    I would enter the Winter of 42 in Peace talks

    But Stalin was only interested in these talks in October 41 ( about Oct 16-18th) when Germany was around Smolensk. He had to decide to stay or leave Moscow to be taken and was preparing to get on his train and a second time was early in 42. By late 42 the war created changes that would not make peace possible that would benefit Germany.

    True. I would hope in stopping, encircling and destroying several Soviet attacks. Stalin would be compelled to listen to peace talks.


  • Hindsight being what it is, go for peace.

    Russia knew it was beat. Germany should have dictated terms (Russia gave up in WW1, why not in WW2?)

    If the military solution is the only one, than I would say ‘drive on to Moscow’.  The shift of forces for Germany cost them time they did not have.  The Caucus may have been a better initial goal, but leaving a corporeal in charge of the military leads to screw ups.


  • Slowly begin self destructing the German army from within with ill thought out offensives…so basically keep doing what the Germans did.

  • '17 '16

    1. End the racism side of National Socialism and and act like a liberator in the Soviet Union. A lot of people didn’t like being under the yoke of Stalin and the Soviet Union.    2. A very high priority given to getting winter gear now to the troops.  3. The  no retreat order was wrong the line needed to be pulled back and settled in for some winter quarters. Winter offences take a toll on your troops and equipment. Only in hindsight do we now know that the no retreat order worked but I feel that still they should have put the troops in a position of staying warm,refitting,defending and making plans for the '42 drive on Moscow or the Caucasus. You really need to end this war in the east this '42 year so you can turn your attention to the defense of the Third Reich. America is coming. I don’t think the Germans realized what America’s production was really capable of, it boggles the mind.  4. Do not declare war on the U.S. Plan for a war but make them declare it. Make sure that U.S. flagged ships are off limits that will be the catylist for the U.S. to declare war. i.e. WWI.


  • @General:

     1. End the racism side of National Socialism and and act like a liberator in the Soviet Union. A lot of people didn’t like being under the yoke of Stalin and the Soviet Union.Â

    Yes, a lot of people in the western USSR would have been quite happy to be freed from Stalinist domination if the Germans had marched into the region with a progressive agenda and tolerant attitudes, which in turn would have been beneficial to the German war effort since controlling a region as liberators is a lot less work-intensive than controlling it as conquerors.  However, the chances of “ending the racism side of National Socialism” were basically zero since racial and ethnic intolerance was a concept woven throughout the fabric of Nazi ideology, and a core principle of Hitler’s view of the world.  The only way for the German war effort on the Eastern Front to have been divorced from its anti-Semitic, anti-Slav, anti-Bolshevik elements would have been for the Wehrmacht to assassinate Hitler prior to Barbarossa, arrest and/or kill the other senior members of the Nazi regime, neutralize the SS, and to take control of the country as part of some sort of alternate regime – possibly a military junta fronted by a nominally civilian administration – which would want to extend the war to Russia rather than keeping it confined to Britain (or better yet seeking peace with Britain by blaming the war on Hitler).

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