Pacific Rim

@frimmel:

@Jermofoot:

Basically, I feel like if you were disappointed you went in with the wrong expectations.

I disagree. My job as a viewer is not to lower the bar to the level the film-makers are capable of meeting. While I don’t disagree that as a viewer I do bear some responsibility for enjoying the movie, I do not bear the entire burden.

I was speaking of this movie alone, although unless a movie is “sold” or promoted as one way, and then plays out completely differently, then I’d agree with you.

This movie was advertised simply as a monster movie, from the previews to interviews with del Toro.  Monster movies have never been known for great acting, or a great story - it’s always been that way and focused on action and campyness.

If you went in expecting more than that - which I don’t know how based on the previews - you had unreasonable expectations.

If you were going to see what you expected to be a bad movie (why would you?) and were pleasantly surprised, then that movie was sold wrong.  Or maybe that was the point.

Anyone ever complain about the lack of story, plot, character development in a porn?  No?  Same thing here.

@Imperious:

I expected an action movie, but with some measure of believable acting, a basic story plot, at least some decent “monster music”, and something along the lines of development of why they are fighting.

Again, I’ve heard the acting is subpar, but that’s not what I’m seeing the movie for.  I’ll have to listen to the music once I see it.  Other than that basic story - interdimensional aliens threaten earth and humanity, humanity builds robots to fight them.  They fight because they’ll destroy us otherwise.  Pretty simple concept.

What we got is " 4th generation monster now ready to be fought at night as usual …. Saddle up and engage enemy, robot 3 held in reserve… now lets fight at night again for the next 40 minutes… enjoy that large fry"

I wasn’t expecting something different.  Were you?

That does not make a movie. A movie must have basic elements unless you cater to dumb kids who love mountain dew and Taco Bell marketing tie ins…… Choose Cool Ranch Taco or Spicy Shell Taco. Vote for Blue Robot or Red Robot… enjoy 24oz soda for $1.00… you will eventually buy something we promise.

Except they deliberately avoided tie-ins with anything, which was refreshing.

It was like watching Starship Troopers except with even worse acting… Future Earth threatened with Alien Monsters, organize into a defense force, fight them with technology, Blah Blah Blah.

The first Starship Troopers didn’t have great acting, but it was a good movie: lots of action, some gore, a bit of humor, and Dizzy’s jubblies.  Although, I didn’t have the experience of reading the book to have a different set of expectations, but I did enjoy it.

I employ this vernacular to illustrate the totally fake experience it was too watch that movie. I demand something a bit more than an after school special

Then don’t watch a monster movie?  A lot of the stuff you brought up seemed unreasonable or didn’t apply.  If you didn’t like it, fine, but you make it sound like it’s the movies fault that you didn’t know what you were going to see.

@frimmel:

Here is the expectation I expect to be met.

spoilers

Giant Mech grabs a ship to use as a weapon against monster. Expectation met- Really cool cgi stuff.

Giant Mech is on the ropes and out of options. Activates an integrated sword. Splits one of the biggest monsters ever in half. Expectation met- really cool cgi stuff.

Expectation not met- Hey wait a minute… why the hell did they need to pick up the ship? Why are they messing with these big plasma cannons that aren’t always effective. Why aren’t they going to this in the first place with the smaller kaiju?

We’re not talking about trying to sort out how the sword works or picking at the drift or how they get these giant mechs walking about at all or a some other form of I’m not willing to participate in the world they’re creating. It’s cheating, pulling rabbits out of hats.

While it was cool and I went for cool, it was cheating- for any movie, no matter your expectations. And I don’t like cheating more than I do like kaiju split in half by swords the size of building.

I appreciate it, Frim.  We certainly could get into the nitty-gritty, and I believe there is enough to explain much of it, but like all movies this one requires a certain level of suspension of disbelief.  It’s not going to pass a science check, because the whole premise is monsters vs. giant robots, remember?  That’s the whole point - it’s not intended to be completely accurate on purpose.

@Imperious:

Since you didn’t see the movie, don’t defend it. Its not worth it.

At this point, I’ve seen about half of it.  It’s far better than a Michael Bay movie.  It’s quite serviceable as an action movie.  And it’s probably the best monster movie I’ve ever seen, and I was excited about Cloverfield.  It’s not going to win awards for acting or anything like that, but it’s also not trying to.  I’m not sure why you are coming down so hard on it.

Yea some reason why they are sending them to Earth, other than fragments of memory from Vulcan mind meld of two comedians. Geez

You make jokes that no one seems to get.  I apologize I don’t see your humor.

Just wait, it’s coming

I doubt it.  That stuff usually happens before the movie even drops.

All the Godzilla movies at least had great music, a story that was somewhat developed, campy acting ( as opposed to no skill acting). I compare this to other Monster movies and it fails that comparison. Everything i brought up DID APPLY to this movie, it was just worse than what anybody should expect regardless of the genre.

Go watch it and kiss that time goodbye.

So far the music was fine.  It was from the same guy who did the Game of Thrones stuff, which is iconic.  It doesn’t stand out, but it’s not grating or in the way either.

Seriously?  Godzilla was better?  I like Godzilla and all, but the level of production is light and dark here.  I’m going to finish the movie tonight, then take my son when he’s back from Ireland.

@frimmel:

Look we’re mostly coming at this from the same place.

I’m ignoring or otherwise going along with the fact that the two pilots are supposed to be connected yet need to talk to each other. Really, so what? Don’t care.

I do care that the giant mech suddenly has an integrated sword when earlier it seemed a better idea to use a ship as a baseball bat.

If I’m bent out of shape about the mentally connected pilots talking that’s on me. That’s me not participating and going along for the ride.

The sword thing is on them. I’m not asking how it works. I’m not objecting to them having it. I’m objecting to them pulling it out of their ass when they’ve gotten themselves in a corner. That’s the film-makers not honoring the leeway I’m giving them or even abusing that leeway and willingness to go along for the ride and cheating.

As far as I can tell we have a lot of stupid people who rail at stuff like the “techno-babble” of Star Trek now being the audience for movies. They don’t understand the “techno-babble” and fail to just identify it as the obstacle to be overcome and not all that important in specific and but through their lack of understanding or participation they think the creators cheated. They get mistaken impressions about why something was good. This opens the door for the cheating and sloppy lazy writing we’ve got in things like “Prometheus” and “Pacific Rim” and trying to pass off the expectation of good story-telling as some sort of failure to play along on the part of some of the audience.

There has become a real disconnect between maguffin and salient plot points. A confusion about what is set-up and needs to be gone along with or why did you come to see it and maintaining logic and consistency and the elements of good and long established narrative tradition in the world you’re trying to create.

We all have different tolerance levels for “just go with it” and engagement in the entertainment we watch. Lately film-makers seem to my mind to be willfully ignorant of this fact or worse- outright disdainful and cynical about it.

It is the corporate culture. They don’t care if it’s good or if we like it. They just care that lots of people see it and that it’s profitable. Junk food cinema for a junk food culture.

I certainly had some continuity/plot hole issues as well.  The main one being: Newt mentions the kaiju are clones.  Then we have one that is pregnant.  I was sure there was an issue with cloning and sexual reproduction: it couldn’t happen or shouldn’t happen.  At the very least, why gestate a fetus to term when you can just clone a bunch anyway?  And I know at one point it’s mentioned that the plasma guns they use have a finite capacity.  They also require time to charge, so getting in close and with a sure shot would be the wisest thing to do.

The sword thing I’m not sure about, and you have a point.  I don’t think it detracts from the entire movie, but could raise questions.  However, I think this is a symptom of editing in which this may have been explained better with more time.  Pretty sure part of this was for the suspense, or to create tension in the movie.  Another factor could be explained better within the movie’s mythos.  They mentioned that nukes were not advisable, as well as minimizing the spread of Kaiju blood (it was volatile, if I remember correctly) - the whole reason why robots are punching them (although that could raise more questions).  So once they reached nearspace, I’m sure a sword was a viable option - although yes, it was a bit gimmicky.  I think for the most part, the majority can be explained, or perhaps even explained better with an extended cut.

Could the movie be better?  Sure.  But I think it went out and did exactly what it was trying to do: create a movie that would entertain your innerchild.  It’s not highbrow, nor was it ever meant to be.  And even great movies suffer from major plotholes - but sometimes you have to overlook it (if they flew the Eagles from the start in Lord of the Rings, then we’d have no movie - or book - right?).

@Imperious:

Seriously?  Godzilla was better?  I like Godzilla and all, but the level of production is light and dark here.

Godzilla was way better
Cloverfield was better
Rodan better
War of the Gargantuas better
Even Godzilla vs the Smog Monster better

They are all classic and had some acting and a plot. Godzilla music kicks ass. Some of the best music for any movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiY5j5QvcdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xPKolXdyiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrb1RkenWk

I literally listened to Pacific Rim music and the clips you provided side by side.  There is not a discernible difference, although the recording quality was obviously better in PR.  The music appropriately escalated during monster attacks - brass and percussion in particular - and became more ambient on other scenes.  I think the biggest difference though is that PR focuses a lot more on the detail to sound in regards to the movie.  Godzilla banked on the soundtrack to take up the slack with a lack of Foley production (some there, nowhere near as much as PR or contemporary movies).

But you know, keep being obtuse and we’ll stick with the status quo.

@LHoffman:

@Jermofoot:

And even great movies suffer from major plotholes - but sometimes you have to overlook it (if they flew the Eagles from the start in Lord of the Rings, then we’d have no movie - or book - right?).

Granted this is an explainable failing, however the example makes your point.

I can’t link it right now…but oglaf.com (NSFW) has a cartoon that has a hilarious point on that.

Actually, this may be it: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Foglaf.com%2Fornithology%2F&ei=O7rmUaT0AsSEygGv-4CgBA&usg=AFQjCNGCwZ1Ul7_1LimqBIUEgS3l2g2X5w&sig2=4SYqyLhRIIVgOCI3zNbUag&bvm=bv.49405654,d.aWc