Who Wins

@Cornwallis:

We have played over 8 games until now and we tried every possible strategy:

1. All in against Russia with AH and Ger (without RR) ==> Russia fell, france invaded Ruhr and headed south in Balkans. GB practicaly destroyed Ottomans
2. All in against France with Ger and AH countered the russians and took ground in Russia (without RR rules). ger got into Paris contesting for 3 turns. Russia practicaly destroyed. Britain send just enough troops to france to counter germans and still had enough money to advance to the gates of instanbul. Italy and US harrased Ger.
3. All CP powers built fleet and try to take control of the seas (counter transports and deny US to land + Submarines in the SZ around UK) ==> france builts fleet together with US to destroy the CP fleet; the submarine warfare only hit 2 IPC from the US and GB so it’s completely useless…
   Even with RR rules we had the same result.
   Maybe threaten Britain with transport ships might be a solution? these ships might be used to transport troops to russia and from russia to western front once russia has fallen?

There are a lot more than 8 strategies you can use, so it isn’t possible to try them all in 8 games.  You only listed 3, what did you do in the other 5?

@Texas:

@Cornwallis:

We have played over 8 games until now and we tried every possible strategy:

1. All in against Russia with AH and Ger (without RR) ==> Russia fell, france invaded Ruhr and headed south in Balkans. GB practicaly destroyed Ottomans
2. All in against France with Ger and AH countered the russians and took ground in Russia (without RR rules). ger got into Paris contesting for 3 turns. Russia practicaly destroyed. Britain send just enough troops to france to counter germans and still had enough money to advance to the gates of instanbul. Italy and US harrased Ger.
3. All CP powers built fleet and try to take control of the seas (counter transports and deny US to land + Submarines in the SZ around UK) ==> france builts fleet together with US to destroy the CP fleet; the submarine warfare only hit 2 IPC from the US and GB so it’s completely useless…
   Even with RR rules we had the same result.
   Maybe threaten Britain with transport ships might be a solution? these ships might be used to transport troops to russia and from russia to western front once russia has fallen?

There are a lot more than 8 strategies you can use, so it isn’t possible to try them all in 8 games.  You only listed 3, what did you do in the other 5?

Well, we retried the first 2 with RR so that makes 5. The other 3 games were variants, for example going all in against italy with AH, or heading all in against france with AH. the 7th and 8th variant were all in against russia but with tactical changes: attacking with 50% tanks and 50% inf or attacking with men and canons and gaining air supperiority with the CP. We found out that the combo of men with canon are the most efficient. trying to gain air supperiority with axis is nearly impossible tough.

I think germany HAS to threaten england or else. That’s the only way to keep the builds out of India.

Stalemate France, push into Russia, Keep some pressure on Italy who becomes target #2 after Russia falls.

Perhaps a “bit” of AH navy would help at some point too.  a transport, or a cruiser, or anything,  even 1 ship a turn.

Hmm…  A german Navy also allows for NWY/SWE Conquest/Challenge.

I’m going to try this next game, in general, buying 1 ship for AH and Germany each turn.  and 1 plane every other turn.  Then the typical inf/art combo’s.

In theory the allies will end up buying more ships, or expending the smaller but more plentiful micro navies they have.

I think the ticket to victory requires an element of income be spent at sea…

I am considering moving the Austrian fleet out turn one with a battleship build as well.  It would make it more difficult for the Allies to activate Albania.

Navy as CP is nonsense!

Have you tried this by now, Flashman?

First, let me say that the new rule (Western Allies conquering Russian TTs) is nonsense!

Ok, now to your questions:
In both CP victories Russia was forced into RR R5 with 5 Russian TTs conquered by an G-AH-OT-East Strategy.
So there ARE no massive UK troops neither in Karelia nor in Sevastopol.

Here is the getgo:
A-H: 5 Art, 1 Fighter
MOVE:
-> ALL Trieste into Serbia and take 1 additional Art (or 2) from Hungary to assure it is an immediate wipeout.
-> Rest Hungary and ALL Galicia into Rumania for an immediate wipeout (cannot be countered by RUS next round!)
-> Move ALL Austria units into Galicia
-> Take 1 Inf from Tyrolia, load it on transport and unload in Tuscany! With DR bombardment you have a sure hit and 50% chance to get the 2 points.  
-> Leave 2 troops in Tyrolia and add 1 Inf from Bohemia for an appropiate challenge (3,3 hits) if Venice feels to attack, 1 Inf to Vienna.(otherwise all built Art would be lost!  :evil:  Rest 2 Inf, 2 Art into Trieste!
-> Bohemia depends on how you handle Switzerland. (with Switzerland impassable move all except the one moved to Tyrolia into Galicia)
(You will see all this is an immensely powerful move!)

(OF course depending on R1, but…)
G1: 3 Inf, 5 Art, 1 Fighter (alternative: 1 CR if you cannot resist! wink)
Obligatory: ALL German ships wipe out the British Fleet!
-> You will get 1 mine hit, most likely a sub and then 2 hits which results in Germany remaining with 1 damaged DR (can we say dreadnoughts?), 2 CR, 2 Subs
(maybe if the opponent is lucky only 1 Sub).
-> Most important thing: Fleet is unattackable by the 1 French DR or RUS DR and at least a temporary threat even as is!
-> MOVE ALL from Prussia and Silesia and the fighter into Poland! (wipe out what is left there by the Russians)(depends on R1!)
-> In the West depending on Switzerland again attack either Holland and Belgium or Holland, Belgium and Switzerland!
(Switzerland from Alsace and Munich with enough units that it is uncounterable. Leave enough that Alsace is not interesting for France to attack.)

After those 2 turns you stand KILLER!
So you can figure out the rest.

Note 1: Do NOT feel tempted to take Denmark with Germany R2 as it is too much loss of tempo!

Note 2: Always take as much tts you can get in Africa to fuel the European war effort immediately! R4 or R5 Germany is history there (anyway)

Note:3 Germany builds 1 (maybe 2) transports R2!
-> Move whole fleet into sz11! Place Tr(s) there.

Note 4: Don’t play bungee jumping here and there with the Ottomans! Be focused on the main objective! Build ground units solely to kill Russians and Brits who could reinforce Russia!! R1 1 Inf into Bulgaria, (almost) everthing else eastward! R2 as many Turks as possible have to be in Mesopotamia!
One exception: If you like attack the 2 Russian CRs R1. If you survive or both killed think about a transport - AND ONLY THEN! But you are fine doing nothing with them as well!

Good luck!

xxstefanx,

The Austrian moves seem resonable, I usually try something similar. What is the German reaction to the Russians moving every unit possible into the Ukraine and buying fighters? In our game, the Germans tried to move into Poland in force and the Russians destroyed them with minimal loss turn two.

Thanks

Kim

@KimRYoung:

xxstefanx,

The Austrian moves seem resonable, I usually try something similar. What is the German reaction to the Russians moving every unit possible into the Ukraine and buying fighters? In our game, the Germans tried to move into Poland in force and the Russians destroyed them with minimal loss turn two.

Thanks

Kim

.

AH and Germany both have to mass in Poland. Suicide if not

@Uncrustable:

@KimRYoung:

xxstefanx,

The Austrian moves seem resonable, I usually try something similar. What is the German reaction to the Russians moving every unit possible into the Ukraine and buying fighters? In our game, the Germans tried to move into Poland in force and the Russians destroyed them with minimal loss turn two.

Thanks

Kim

.

AH and Germany both have to mass in Poland. Suicide if not

So you suggest Austria attack Poland turn one? or wait and move in behind the Germans on turn two?

Kim

AH attacking Poland turn 1 would be pretty silly  :|

It would very obviously be AH 2, so that on Russia’s 2nd turn if they wanted to attack Poland it’s defenses would be maximized (germ + AH force)

If Russia stacks Poland turn 1 then Germany attacks followed by an AH attack and russia is now screwed for the rest of the game (and so too are the allies)

@Uncrustable:

AH attacking Poland turn 1 would be pretty silly  :|

It would very obviously be AH 2, so that on Russia’s 2nd turn if they wanted to attack Poland it’s defenses would be maximized (germ + AH force)

If Russia stacks Poland turn 1 then Germany attacks followed by an AH attack and russia is now screwed for the rest of the game (and so too are the allies)

So Germany moves into Poland when? Turn 1 attack, followed by Austrian reinforcments? Just want to be clear what your plan is.

Kim

Don’t be thick  :-P

Your answer is in my post

@Uncrustable:

Don’t be thick  :-P

Your answer is in my post

Not trying to be. my original question was what to do if the Russians DO NOT defend poland and withdraw everthing to the Ukraine. Does Germany move in with everthing? If so what does Austria have left to move into Poland with. I’m not trying to be argumentative, just seeing what is an effective counter and specifics on the troop deployment.

Kim

@Uncrustable:

AH attacking Poland turn 1 would be pretty silly  :|

It would very obviously be AH 2, so that on Russia’s 2nd turn if they wanted to attack Poland it’s defenses would be maximized (germ + AH force)

If Russia stacks Poland turn 1 then Germany attacks followed by an AH attack and russia is now screwed for the rest of the game (and so too are the allies)

The only option under this would be Germany first turn lol considering russia goes before Germany

I will spell it out
Germany stacks Poland G1 AH reinforces AH2
Now on R2 Russia can’t attack Poland

Not quite sure what you’re getting at here; but a few points:

I’m not saying the UK can prevent Germany conquering Russia - what I mean is that the British should be in a position to threaten such tts with enough force to make it necessary for the CPs to keep most if not all their eastern forces in the east, rather than considering that front closed down and sent the units back west. Hence, large CP forces being “trapped” in the east should not be an issue. Bu using the London-Karelia shuck, Britain can always switch forces to where the Germans don’t want them to be. Only a substantial German navy in the Baltic can counter this, and the Allies should not allow that to exist by that stage of the game.

I agree that the Allies “liberating” these tt is another misstep in the RR rules, but they will only satisfy me when those pro-German Red Soviet units begin to appear…

@xxstefanx:

Have you tried this by now, Flashman?

First, let me say that the new rule (Western Allies conquering Russian TTs) is nonsense!

Ok, now to your questions:
In both CP victories Russia was forced into RR R5 with 5 Russian TTs conquered by an G-AH-OT-East Strategy.
So there ARE no massive UK troops neither in Karelia nor in Sevastopol.

@Flashman

Forget your beloved rails for a moment!
IF CPs win they do so out of ressources - eliminating Russia early turning the tide. (so do the Allies btw if CPs fail)
If you are successful Germany reaches 50+ or even 55+ being able to afford a 2-front-war.
They tap back slowly but thats not decisive.

So again: Did you try it?

@Uncrustable
CORRECT: G1 Poland all in + fighter AND AH2 reinforcing so that Russian attack from Ukraine would result in (significantly) higher losses on their side :evil:

It is all about the tempo!!!
CP strategy on the east can only be:
a) Russia moves back
b) Russia suffers casualties against ONE of the piling G or AH stacks so that the other can get momentum!

R4 or R5 (R6 AT THE LATEST!!!) Russia must be cracked out!

Sorry, did I try what?

I’ve been experimenting with the various changes to movement rules proposed by LH.

The trick is to allow units to move more quickly to the front, without the game becoming dominated by super-stacks, and without making a German entry into Paris automatic.

You said you wanted to try my opening I already posted in the “CP playbook” topic weeks ago!

Get back to page 9 (middle) in this thread for the outline of the AH-G-OT-East-Strategy.

As it seems there are no tricks necessary! :wink:
CPs have a clear chance to win the game!

P.S.: Low Luck or even Lowest Luck delivers conclusions in a significantly more valid way!

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

@xxstefanx:

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

You and Texas lol

Allies are the ones winning all the games
:-P

@Uncrustable:

@xxstefanx:

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

You and Texas lol

Allies are the ones winning all the games
:-P

Don’t cut quotes out without the context!
And do not throw me into the same camp as Texas because from his posts he really seems beginner or - lets say “has strange ideas”.

Streamlined CP play in an all out East-Strategy has delivered some wins for the CPs in our veteran Axis gaming group.
That’s all!
I am nowhere saying they are necessarily stronger than the allies.
(Allies got their wins as well, of course!)

P.S.: As you should have noticed I already gave an outlay for the first buys and moves for the not so experienced players who still try such nonsense and build much navy with CPs for instance! (page before)