Would the Allies win without Russia in the real war?

@Thebismarck:

The war of 1812 is the only war that the Americains lost in History!

america won the war of 1812

Canada won the war of 1812. But I dunno about the better trained stuff. :-?

@Drumstix:

Canada won the war of 1812.

i think we’re talking about different wars of 1812.

I would say the war of 1812 was a draw-it’s not like any land changed hands or anything like that.

Back to topic:
The question is extremely academic, as without the “Lebensraum” in the east (means: Ukraine, Belarus) Hitler would not have started WW2. Thus, the Allies would not have won.

Hitler and Stalin were headed for a war with each other and they both knew it.It was inevitable.Hitler said in his goofy book Germany needed “lebensraum” and that was in the East.The Non-Aggression Pact of '39 was just to confound the French and British from negotiating with Stalin.Hitler wanted to invade Poland so he could be right on Russias frontier.The attack on Poland caused the Allies to declare war,upsetting Hitlers actual goal–invading Russia.After defeating France,he massed the armies in Poland,telling the Russians the troops are there to escape British bombers.The rest is history.Hitlers only real goal was war with Russia but it came in a roundabout way so I think the question “Would Germany have won the war without Russia as an enemy?” is pointless.

Falk and Nth:

That’s what I said. I have been making fun of this thread because is ridiculous.

Bismarck:

Check your history, Canada didn’t win because there was no Canada. The war of 1812 was between the English, the French, the US, and assorted “First Nations People”.

So the real question should be: If Germany was only fighting Russia, would the other Allies have helped either of them?

Perhaps if Poland had given Germany military access, but I think Hitler wanted to occupy Poland as well. If it wasn’t for Poland I don’t think the Allies would have gotten involved and Germany would have replaced Russia in the cold war. My Oppinion of course.

And a much better topic for debate. :wink:

uuhhh dezrtfish, germany invading poland is what started the war. any ways back to the topic. You have to look at the industrial side too. Germany needed russias wheat, steal, oil and whatever crap is in there. If germany didnt invade russia they would have died out alot sooner from the hands of the us and uk. I know germany didnt beat russia but they got far enough to secure vital steel and wheat and some oil. Germany would not make it againts the US and Uk in full war time production. Germany barely had a war time production until 1943.

And for tanks like the tiger 1 and 2 forget about them. the germans only made these to counter russian tanks so its safe to say if they didnt fight russia the tigers would be a thought if some dudes head.

lets say germany takes africa and britan, germany is sitting very pretty right now because the US,even with their A-Bomb, did not have a stating post for invasions and no american plane could fly with an atomic bomb all the way to berlin, its impossible!

@Zhukov_2003:

uuhhh dezrtfish, germany invading poland is what started the war.

Right, my comment was in reference to GI’s question as to about Britain and franch iterfearing in a strickly Germany vs. Russia war. For this to happen Germany would have had to avoid war with Poland. :wink:

@Zhukov_2003:

so its safe to say if they didnt fight russia the tigers would be a thought if some dudes head.

what the hell does that mean

Either the second or third of your assumptions.

You Have to specify, because if you are asking would the Allies win the war when Germany takes Poland and then goes back to take G.B. The Russians were not really suprised at the attack Of the Germans. Stalin himself knew what Hitler was like and knew he had to get ready for whatever Hitler did. So he took finland for more land. He, like so many of the earlier Czars Tried to Bring Russia into the modern ages. Though Unlike Nicholas, he used much greater violence to get his way. In 1933, six whole years before the Non-Aggression pact, Stalin killed 25 million people. This all to make Russia a huge industrial power. So, How can you say like one of you did earlier that the Allies supplied russia??

These are all technically true, however they’re not all cohesive and not all relevant. I’m especially confused by your concluding question. Where does it come from?

BTW, can this thread please be moved to the General Discussions, where it belongs ?

ok, I think u need a historical lesson. There would have been no war without Russia, so the topic is foolish. Hitler explaines in “Mein Kampf” that if you want to conquer land in Europe, u have to take Russia. He wanted land in the east. His first target was Poland. He tried to convince the french and the britts that a war between these countries would mean in great losses at both sides. But the allies decleared war. This was perfect for Stalin. He wanted the Germany to fight with the allies, and then rush into poland. But france lost unbeliveable fast, when you see on the french army´s strength. Then Stalin did not dare an attack on Germany. Now Hitler could do what he had allways wanted, conquer russia.

Back to topic: No, the allies could not win a war without russia. The entire german army fought at the eastern front. Imagin this front at the cost of U.S. This army killed 27 000000 russians. The tiny army stationed in France killed 300000 americans. The allies would have no hope. Germany was ten times stronger then america in 1941 :wink: