Would the Allies win without Russia in the real war?

Also, the Germans had 50 divisions committed to counter D-Day

Hmm…I guess thats would explain how less than 10,000 allied soldiers secured a beach head on France facing a 50 division strong army. :D Germany had more like 1-2 divisions facing the allies on D-Day.

@Zhukov_2003:

Also, the Germans had 50 divisions committed to counter D-Day

Hmm…I guess thats would explain how less than 10,000 allied soldiers secured a beach head on France facing a 50 division strong army. :D Germany had more like 1-2 divisions facing the allies on D-Day.

you got me!
(I meant 50 divisions in the west, The Heer)
The Germans didn’t know where the Allies would land so they spread them right around the Atlantic wall. In Normandy the Allies faced (initially) 3 German divisions to their 8.
Big problem of course faced by the Germans was getting their reserves into the fight.

The Soviet Order of Battle during WW2 had something like 500 divisions that were put to use against Hitler. The Germans had something near 450. The US’s target was near 100 Divisions and they ended up with something like 70. I don’t know much about the British OOB, but it was definitely less than Ameirca’s.

@Chindit:

Big problem of course faced by the Germans was getting their reserves into the fight.

I thought the big problem of the Germans on D-Day was that Hitler believed that it was a fake and kept his forces waiting for the mythical 1st Army under Patton. All right, it’s the same, but different. :roll:

Thats bull sh*t. The tanks weren’t anywhere near Norrmandy. Maybe they already had 10 there but that still wouldn’t have made a difference. After Rommel was forced out of Africia he was on his way to the West Coast. If we had forced him out of Africia sooner or delayed D-Day, he would have made it. And if he was there with all his tanks, we would have lost D-Day. But no whoop. We would have just launched a bigger assult a half a year later.

actually, there were tnks nearby… were did you find the info that there werent?
I heard there were on History channel!
I guess that channel is full of crap too! :roll:

even if russia hadn’t been involved and hitler had all his men and material to throw at us, we still would have won. germany could’nt match the industrial might of the U.S.A. and coupled with pearl harbour, we were out for blood. and the moral of the war is, dont mess with america!

Guys, hitler dreamed of invading ussr before he even became fueher!
He wrote about it in Mein kampf!

The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.

The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.

The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.

Yes it is true if the Panzers had been activated the invasion would have slowed? On day 2 of the Invasion one pilot described the amount of allied tactical attack aircraft so large that he thought he should “Put his blinker on!” The total amount was an astounding 2434 Fighters and 700 light and Medium Bombers. The D-Day landing zone was 55 miles long or approx 1 Fighter for every 90’ ! The Panzers would have perished other wise and if they were brought to the front htey could evac the beaches and bombard again. In my view they would have perished anyway either by Bombard or Tactical destruction. The Allies were Indestructible IMHO.

GG

Yes, that is a possibility. But it would be fairly risky. The Germans had tons of AA guns, which could have easily shot down a sizeable part of the aircraft. Even then, they didn’t know where the tanks would have been, so they would have had to search for tanks that may or may not have left Pas de Calais, and face tons of AA fire. Hitler did finally send the tanks, when the Allies had consolidated their beachheads, and when there were more Allied aircraft around. Most of the tanks made it there, although late. The planes were used to bomb transportation lines mostly, not actual tanks. I doubt anyone would take the risk to send planes to scout for German tanks coming to Normandy from Pas de Calais because of the risky nature of the mission, because they thought that they had thoroughly decieved Hitler, and because they thought that transportation lines had been sufficiently damaged. It probably would have been quite possible to send some planes, but the Germans didn’t send the tanks. A lot of planes would have been lost for nothing. I would think that they should’ve sent more planes to the beaches to help the Allied invaders.

Yes, that is a possibility. But it would be fairly risky. The Germans had tons of AA guns, which could have easily shot down a sizeable part of the aircraft. Even then, they didn’t know where the tanks would have been, so they would have had to search for tanks that may or may not have left Pas de Calais, and face tons of AA fire. Hitler did finally send the tanks, when the Allies had consolidated their beachheads, and when there were more Allied aircraft around. Most of the tanks made it there, although late. The planes were used to bomb transportation lines mostly, not actual tanks. I doubt anyone would take the risk to send planes to scout for German tanks coming to Normandy from Pas de Calais because of the risky nature of the mission, because they thought that they had thoroughly decieved Hitler, and because they thought that transportation lines had been sufficiently damaged. It probably would have been quite possible to send some planes, but the Germans didn’t send the tanks. A lot of planes would have been lost for nothing. I would think that they should’ve sent more planes to the beaches to help the Allied invaders.

Well the Infantry would have said were the tanks were!!!

As for AA defenses Why would they even send up any Fighters? If their purpose was to support Infantry then they would have been there despite the AA… My point is they would have had an Air superiority that would have defeated anything…

GG

What infantry? The ones fighting for the beaches? Yes, the Allies did have air superiority, but they had not destroyed AA guns. They just had air superiority over enemy aircraft.

@Begoner:

What infantry? The ones fighting for the beaches? Yes, the Allies did have air superiority, but they had not destroyed AA guns. They just had air superiority over enemy aircraft.

’

Yes the ones on the beaches and the ones inland… And they could have destroyed those(the infantry that is)…

The above is a fact, if you dont belive me look in any history book or WW2 website. The Credit of defeating the germans must go mainly to the soviets and the british. in 1940 the britsh fought the germans alone and withstood crippling city bombardments as well as staggaring losses in the atlantic dealt by german U-boats. The British were close to collapse on June 22 1941 when the bulk of the Luftwaffe transfered to Poland For Operation Barbarossa: the invasion of the Soviet union. The Soviets Halted the German offensive in front of moscow in december 1941 and began to push the Germans back. The Soviets fought the war Virtually on their own until june 6th 1944 when the allies landed in Normandy.

Now if you look at the numbers youll see what im getting at.
D-Day Was successfull only because the germans were on the verge of collapse and had lost any hope of winning the war in the east.
When the Allies hit the coast of France in 1944, the German defenders were understrength, outnumbered and totaly demoralised.
The Nazis had already lost the war when Tom Hanks got off of his landing craft in Saving private Ryan. :)

The total amount of geman divsions created throughout the war was 247

Roughly 15 Occupied Europe, 4 fought in north africa and 30-35 were stationed in france from 1944-45. That leaves the rest, about 190-195 divisions, Fighting on the Russian Front.
if The Western Allies had as much trouble as they did in 1944 with 30-35 divisions, what could they have done against all the other 200 from 1941 onward ?

i should also point out that while American war-supplies were much appretiated, the amount sent in the crucial first years of 1941-42 was tiny, for the first half of the war the American economic aid added up to about 0.05% of Soviet Industruial Capacity.

Could the allies win the war withought russia? not bloody likley.

For the love of Jesus!!! :x
Or as Janus1 would say “Jesus tap-dancing christ!”

I dont know how to say this to u so you guys will understand–—

HITLER HATES COMMUNISTS!!! :x :x :x :x

HE WROTE ABOUT A WAR WITH USSR when he was 15!!!
HIS WHOLE PLAN OF RISING TO POWER WAS TO TAKE MORE LEBENSRAUM!!! LEBENSRAUM IS THE WORLD ISLAND WHICH CONSUMES ABOUT 95 % OF THE USSR!!! SO UNLESS STALIN INVADED HIM FIRST HE WAS ALWAYS GONNA ATTACK THE RUSKIES!!!

whooaa!
Does every1 understand this now?