Possible alliances?

I would like to try 2 alternative scenarios:

A:

German Empire , Great Britain, Austria Hungary

against

France, USA, Russia, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom Italy (with US starting on round 1)

B:

Italy beeing member of the CPs so its 4 against 4

I feel like if Italy is on the CP then France is completely boned but I’ll have to play a few games to see, France just has such a small army to start off with compared to Germany and Austria-Hungary. Hell they make Austria-Hungary look like it was in a golden age during the New Imperialism era.

The alliance alternative that would be the least fanciful historically (though it wasn’t very likely to happen) would be having Turkey on the Allied side (or remaining neutral).  In the early months of the war, Turkey’s leaders were divided on what position to take: the Sultan favoured neutrality, various high officials wanted to enter the war on the side of Germany, and at least one cabinet minister wanted to side with France.  One account I’ve read about this basically argues that the Ottoman leadership was paralyzed by indecision and that, before commiting itself, it wanted to wait until it could see which side was going to win the war.  So if the Allies had done better against the Germans than was the case historically, and/or if they’d managed to sink the Goeben and Breslau (which escaped only by a narrow margin) before they reached Constantinople, Turkey might just possibly have stayed neutral or perhaps even joined the Allied camp.

CWO Marc I think you bring up a good point about the Turks maybe siding with the allies. The Italians were also riding the fence, so I wonder if you could swap the Turks to the allies, and the Italians to the CP and still get a balanced game w/o changing the starting set-up (much?). Both of these powers are about the same strength and income I think (low on the totem pole), and each would offer their new alliance partners some very strategic locations.

How about a neutral Britain, which will only enter the war against whoever attacks/activates Belgium? I mean, if that’s really why Britain declared war on Germany, it just makes sense.

You might get away with swapping a couple powers of equal strength w/minor adjustments. I don’t think you can take any power from one side (and UK is a major power) and expect to have a balanced game unless you completely change the starting set-up and maybe turn order. The German player won’t invade Belgium, and if you take the UK out of the game then France falls like a rock w/o English reinforcements, or the British navy to draw some fire power.

@WILD:

I don’t think you can take any power from one side (and UK is a major power) and expect to have a balanced game unless you completely change the starting set-up and maybe turn order. The Germans player won’t invade Belgium, and if you take the UK out of the game then France falls like a rock w/o English reinforcements, or the British navy to draw some fire power. You might get away with swapping a couple powers of equal strength though w/minor adjustments.

I totally agree WILD BILL. I’m of the opinion that Britain would have declared war on Germany regardless of whether or not Belgium was invaded. Belgium was a convenient excuse to get the public on board.

You might get away with delaying the English entering the war, and they come in on a certain turn, or if the Germans gain full control of say a French territory, or invade Belgium, but you would still have to off set it on the other side some how. I guess that fix could be that the Turks would be delayed until attacked, or the UK is at war.  With the UK not in the game early on, that could be a while if the Russians don’t jump the gun.

Britain would have declared war with or without the invasion of Belgium. There’s no way Britain would remain neutral in a war on this scale.

I don’t think we’re talking about the Brits sitting on the side lines for more then a turn or two (politically their isolationist theme was changing as the Germans were gaining strength). The treaty’s the Brits had w/the smaller low countries (Belgium etc…) was for military action, so instant DOW would result. Where the agreements they had with both Russia and France (their long time adversaries) were more moral obligations. They feared the German Empire’s naval build up, and it’s direct threat to the British colonies, so they would have figure out some way to DOW against Germany, they had many treaties & pacts to choose from once the Germans started an offensive. It’s the old the enemy of my enemy is now my ally theme.

It think Italy being at war should be delayed at least until their first turn, or they are attacked.

Something can be considered with Turqy regarding the Goeben incident; not getting the 2 BBs Britain had built for it really pissed off the Turqs, but the gift of 2 modern cruisers from Germany swung them into joining the war.

So start off with: no Turqish navy; but 2 German cruisers in the med. These can choose to sail to Constantinople, then on T1 can be converted to Turqish units. This can be integrated into my suggestion that Turqy can produce no mechanical units, just convert those delivered to their capital.

It also prevents these ships being sunk by the Russia-France-Britain naval triple attack that I’m sure will finish them before T1 in most games.

Of course the German player might choose to use the ships instead to attack the French navy and try stopping it shipping north African units to France…

Flashman, why do you keep saying ‘Turqy’?  Is that what it is supposed to be or is it a British English spelling or what?  Always been ‘Turkey’ to me.

@BJCard:

Flashman, why do you keep saying ‘Turqy’?  Is that what it is supposed to be or is it a British English spelling or what?  Always been ‘Turkey’ to me.

He’s poking fun at the fact that Turkey has the color turquoise in this game.

@ch0senfktard:

@BJCard:

Flashman, why do you keep saying ‘Turqy’?  Is that what it is supposed to be or is it a British English spelling or what?  Always been ‘Turkey’ to me.

He’s poking fun at the fact that Turkey has the color turquoise in this game.

Fair enough.

The most even alternative would probably be switching Italy and the Ottoman Empire.

Remember that ITALY was actually a member of the Central Powers in 1914.  It would be interesting if the Italian player stayed Neutral for the first two turns then decided which alliance to join.  Could be an interesting change up!

Of course, USA would most likely then have to join the Entente immediately following.

Interesting Historical Point:  There was a secret protocol in the Central Powers Alliance, that Italy would join a war as long as it did not involve Great Britain.  It was the British decision to support France that lead to Italy declaring neutrality in 1914.  They only joined later to try and gain advantage over Austria and claim some disputed border territories.

@FieldMarshalGames:

Remember that ITALY was actually a member of the Central Powers in 1914.Â

Actually, Italy was a member of the Triple Alliance, not the Central Powers.  The Triple Alliance and the Triple Entente were the pre-war alliances; the Central Powers and the Allied Powers were the actual blocks of WWI combatants (which didn’t precisely match the membership of the two treaty groups).

@FieldMarshalGames:

Interesting Historical Point:  There was a secret protocol in the Central Powers Alliance, that Italy would join a war as long as it did not involve Great Britain.  It was the British decision to support France that lead to Italy declaring neutrality in 1914.  They only joined later to try and gain advantage over Austria and claim some disputed border territories.

Sound like an interesting read, may I ask where you heard this? I had read that the reason Italy didn’t join the Central Powers was because the Triple Alliance pact was founded upon the

idea of mutual defense. When Germany and Austria-Hungary approached Italy about getting into the war, Italy said that because Austria-Hungary was the one who declared war on Serbia

that it was an offensive war that did not apply to the Triple Alliance pact. Italy had also had some falling out with Germany and Austria-Hungary during the Italo-Turkish War as Germany in

particular was trying to get the Ottomans into their camp, plus Italy and Austria had a long rivalry with each other over the Italian speaking portions of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

Dont forget that Italy also had a secret pact with France which limited any chance of an Italian attack on French soil (although I dont think any pact was water tight).

Britain joining on the CP side would at least ‘shake’ up the battle for Africa. In fact even Italy joining the CP would make it a little more interesting.